Female Muslim medics 'disobey hygiene rules'

[shina]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

They should have to tell their patients they wont be scrubbing up properly before surgery in the interest of full disclosure. If the patient is happy to take the risk, then so be it (as long as they can afford the risk financially).

Surely it would have to go against their hypocratic oath though. Knowing they're likely to be putting their patients in danger...or something.

I completely agree. Well, I hope never to get sick there.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by BrianR

wait, doesn't surgical garb cover your arms to the wrist and surgical gloves (2 pr IIRC) cover the hands totally?

I know Muslim women can undress and bathe privately and with members of their own sex, just not around men.

Doctors usually scrub privately and dress before surgery and the patient generally doesn't see the doctor just prior to surgery due to anesthetic prep. I've been operated on twice and neither time did I actually see the doctor, I was out before he even got there.

So what's the problem? I'm missing something I guess.

Scrub areas are not in a private location. They are located as close as possible to the operative theater, usually with glass over the sink looking into the OR. This is so immediately after the scrub, the doc walks immediately into the OR with dripping arms held above the waist hands in the air at about shoulder or chest height. The glass is often there so the surgeon can monitor and be summonded if there is an immediate problem. Not all ORs have the glass, just most of the modern ones. The patient often does not see the surgeon in the OR, but that is surgeon dependent.

And FTR, the women must comply or find another profession IMHO. The Brits were pioneers in getting physicians to stop wearing ties in the hospital.

[Cloud]

I personally think Islam was a flawed religion from the very beginning. Too many unworkable ideas, for example, their holy book can only be read in one language. The fact that it couldn't even survive their prophet's death without controversy, schism and bloodshed should have been a clue. The world is still paying for that schism today, and how.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Cloud

The fact that it couldn't even survive their prophet's death without controversy, schism and bloodshed should have been a clue.

Unlike, say, the Great Schism or the Protestant Reformation?

[Cloud]

yeah, but those splits happened a thousand years after the fact. Islam broke up immediately upon its proponent's death.

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by Cloud

I personally think Islam was a flawed religion from the very beginning. Too many unworkable ideas, for example, their holy book can only be read in one language. The fact that it couldn't even survive their prophet's death without controversy, schism and bloodshed should have been a clue. The world is still paying for that schism today, and how.

I personally think Christianity was a flawed religion from the very beginning. Too many unworkable ideas, for example, *their holy book can only be read in one language. The fact that it couldn't even survive their saviour's death without controversy, schism and bloodshed should have been a clue. The world is still paying for that schism today, and how.

*ok so the bible is available in many languages, but you get my idea I'm sure.

[Cloud]

I am not a fan of organized religion in general. I don't necessarily think your comparisons equate exactly as you have positioned them, but I won't insist on my idea. It was just a thought I had yesterday, listening to my podcast about cultural geography.

[deadbeater]

I'm not a fan of atheism either, especially when it propagates things such as human eugenics and worse.

[DanaC]

atheists aren't the only ones to propogate human eugenics. Plenty of theists have been ardent eugenicists.

[Aliantha]

I don't necessarily think your comparisons equate exactly as you have positioned them

I know they don't. But I don't think we can make sweeping statements about any religion and really be positioning the religion correctly...if you get what I mean. It's the old bad apple thing. Just because some people that belong to a particular group go psycho doesn't mean the rest should be judged for those actions.

[Cloud]

Originally Posted by Cloud

It was just a thought I had yesterday, listening to my podcast about cultural geography.

. . . in which the point was made that the Qur'an is only the Qur'an in one language, Arabic. Sure, you can translate it, but it isn't the Qur'an then--it isn't a holy book in English or whatever. I was thinking, boy that's pretty shortsighted of them, and then I got to thinking about other things in Islam that seem not to make sense to me, and are unworkable. Like the present discussion about female health care workers.

Yes, you can find plenty of examples of dumb things in a lot of religions, including Christianity--I'm not saying you can't--but it's just my personal opinion that Islam has had a tough roe and inflexible rules from the start.

[DanaC]

I don't think it's necessarily Islam that's inflexible. There are places and communities practising Islam in very different ways across the globe. Some communities have a much more secular approach to Islam, some are culturally more inclined towards greater parity between the sexes than others. The inflexibility comes in with the interpretation of Islam. Certain interpretations of Islam render it (to the western way of thinking) inflexible and less able to fit a 'modern' way of life.

There are interpretations of Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhism and Judaism which, to my mind, seem inflexible and archaic in their precepts, including in their attitudes to females and homosexuality, dietary requirements, clothing requirements and so forth.

[Flint]

Oh, shame on our "western way of thinking" for pointing out obvious stupidity and barbarism when it rears it's ugly head.

[DanaC]

I think it was more the idea that Islam is somehow inherently and uniquely stupid and barbarous that I was objecting to Flint. Much of what appears to be 'Islam' is actually a culturally based interpretation of Islam and in no way universally accepted by the Islamic diaspora. Doesn't make it any less stupid and barbarous....just makes it less inherent to the actual religion.

[Cloud]

"stupid and barbarous" are rather harsher criticisms than I felt I was making. Flawed and unworkable were the things I was thinking about.

If I were in a hospital where this thing was going on . . . I would demand that no one touch me who hasn't properly scrubbed.