Thoughts: Invite-only Cellar

01-11-2002, 10:23 AM

Nic pointed out the other day that he thought we should go the route of CitizenX. That is, once they developed, they closed their doors to run an invitation-only site - if you were to be able to participate in the boards, you needed to be invited. AKA, no general admission. Or people could fill out an application, it would be reviewed and they'd be allowed to join up.

So, to cut to the chase - what do you think about this? Waiting until the Cellar has built up a bigger base, rounding up the biggest contributors of intelligent material (maybe 400 or 500 of 'em? who knows), then starting a members-only site, with the whole invite-only deal in effect. Maybe a couple public boards, and maybe everything would be viewable by the public but they wouldn't be able to sign up and post - that way, they could get an idea about us, and then submit an application. What do you think? Just curious to hear peoples' opinions on this one - obviously, it's Tony that makes the choice, but I just want to hear what everyone else things.

Myself, I'm kinda undecided (not that it really matters, like I said). I can see how it'd be great to keep the noise down and the intelligent conversation high, but by the same token, we don't know what we'd miss by leaving it closed.

Thoughts?

Undertoad · 01-11-2002, 10:56 AM

It's not only me that makes the choice because the Cellar is not me; it's me plus all y'all. If everyone simultaneously decided that it was not worthy, it would die. There's nothing much special about me being the one who put this up here. It's all y'all that make it what it is.

But lemme mention how it was in the Philly BBSing land that pre-dates the Cellar. Once the community grew to a certain point, some places developed inner-circle boards that were not visible to the masses.

This in turn lead to ugly infighting, as people took to heart the idea that some were elite while others were not.

My gut feeling is that a discussion-style forum like vBulletin can only hold so many people until it has to change how it operates. Increasing numbers of forums let it expand comfortably. My gut feeling is also that places like this do not expand forever. Like Usenet, once they reach a critical mass, they become less useful to a lot of people.

Around here, we are so comfy with each other right now that conversations become casual and lengthy (and off-topic!) in a hurry. This in turn discourages outsiders, who feel that they can't get into the "clique" and fail to post and eventually fail to read.

This also means that it is, in effect, invite-only. If you are specifically invited you feel like you can crash the party safely. If not, you feel like you're butting in.

I guess I'm saying that I don't see further growth as a "problem" yet, and possibly something that's self-regulating anyway. But also, the place will change and evolve if it needs to. At a slower pace than the rest of the world, but I hope it will neet all our needs for the long haul, and I promise to try to keep hammering into place the technological bits we need to keep it solid.

Ardax · 01-11-2002, 01:07 PM

I'm inclined to agree with Undertoad here. Making a "members-only" club that you have to get invited into has the potential of essentially making the only people who want to post the people with voices. A similar thing happened with the BBS scene on the other side of the state. Once "special" areas were set up that you had to be invited into, people started getting upset. Well, once they contained more than free warez and porn that is.

Getting into things is somewhat intimidating, as so many people are very comfortable here. At first I thought that it was almost all local peeps until I saw some of the discussion and figured out where some people were from. You just have to jump in I guess -- I hope it's working.

This seems like a very comforatble place where people more or less just chat. Everyone's welcome, and it's pretty open. That's really cool, and it's what I love about this place: There's no overriding topic that must be adhered to, no "grand vision" other than getting people together. It has a feel very reminiscent of old-school Usenet or FidoNet. I really liked that kind of feeling, and could never really find any place on it that had quite the same feel -- until I stumbled across this place. I lurked for about a day or two and realized that this is the kind of place I'd been looking for.

I don't think that the Cellar is in need of any sort of formal moderation or special status. Things seem to work very smoothly, it's not infested with trolls and other associated twits, and discussion is mostly rational and civil. The sense of community that exists here sets up a naturally high barrier of entry. The community that exists is also fairly self-policing, which helps too.

So, those are my thoughts, at any rate.

Undertoad · 01-11-2002, 01:35 PM

<i>You just have to jump in I guess -- I hope it's working.</i>

It is -- you are now a part of us. Now the big question is, are we a part of you?

01-11-2002, 01:58 PM

Man. I can answer that question for myself:

Fuck yes.

You're all my good buddies. I just got off the phone with sycamore - he's heading over, and we're gonna probably go hit the Apple Store to lust over some new iMacs, then go home and play some Xbox, ending the night with some PAD GAI (yes, it's all caps like that :P ). I have more respect and appreciation for Tony than I can even say, and I definitely enjoy "knowing" him. tw's "dry as a cracker" when he writes, but I enjoy reading him. I even like Jaggy.

For me, the Cellar is something really special. I don't want it to ever go away - especially because it got too popular and the crapflooders started coming here. If we're still a "community", I'll be a member.

Ardax · 01-11-2002, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dhamsaic
For me, the Cellar is something really special. I don't want it to ever go away - especially because it got too popular and the crapflooders started coming here. If we're still a "community", I'll be a member.

That's what it's all about, and I'm on the train.

It's great the kind of friends you can make in a nice cozy online setting. I should e-mail some of my old buddies from FidoNet's TEEN Echo and have them come over here -- it was the only other forum I've found that was as cozy feeling.

I can't exactly hop down to the Apple store with y'all (then again, I might be in DC at the end of Feb, who's up for a day trip?

), but I feel like I can make some great friends here.

[Edit]
I always get confused when you refer to Tony, since that's my name too. I'm constantly doing a double-take. Heh.

[/Edit]

Nic Name · 01-11-2002, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Nic pointed out the other day that he thought we should go the route of CitizenX.

This thread started with a misinterpretation and a misstatement.

I never thought such a thing.

I never stated such a thought.

In fact, that it is quite the opposite of what I think.

I recall posting a link to the page that described how CitizenX had to shut down, but I never even suggested that the Cellar should go that route. The link was to show the direction NOT to go.

Quote:

PPS: Your community is a precious thing. It's yours. Don't let interlopers screw it up for you. CitizenXit

It's fair enough to quote what I write, but for crying out loud ... please don't tell people what I think ... dham!

01-11-2002, 04:35 PM

Ah. I thought you meant "CitizenX it" - like, do what they're doing.

Nic Name · 01-11-2002, 04:37 PM

... Citizen Exit ... like, they're gone!

verbatim · 01-13-2002, 01:40 PM

Someone said earlier that at some point, we do have to change formats. I would not like to see the Cellar fall to the point of, say [H]ard|Forum . They have some 33499 users, and you can tell. most posts are nothing more than either "hahaha" or "me too" or "this girl likes me". Its rather sad, and although I dont agree with the idea of being "invite-only", it might be a suitable thing to do when we do get to critical mass. But its just something we will have to decide on when we get to that point, because we might just as possibly stop getting users to join. It could be years before that happens.

jaguar · 02-12-2002, 02:03 AM

Hmm well.
A: big vbullien forums SUCK. Megatokyo comes to mind, much of the attraction here for me (and others i'm gueessing) is that you get to know people, you don't get that most places.

As for invite only, i don't think its needed, i mean we've had a few wankers (asdfasdf comes to mind as the latest) they seem to trail off on their own. I mean its up to 350 odd members, when i came here it was about 100, nd there is about 20odd at least semi-regualr posters, i don't see it as an issue, yet. An eliteist culture on the basis that "i've been here longer, therefore my opinion matters more", is something that should be avoided at all costs.

Even if it was admission only, who decides who gets in? What are we going to ask? political views? hope not. Are you going to be an annoying wanker? See my point, its not as easy as putting up a form.

01-11-2002, 10:23 AM	#1
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Thoughts: Invite-only Cellar Nic pointed out the other day that he thought we should go the route of CitizenX. That is, once they developed, they closed their doors to run an invitation-only site - if you were to be able to participate in the boards, you needed to be invited. AKA, no general admission. Or people could fill out an application, it would be reviewed and they'd be allowed to join up. So, to cut to the chase - what do you think about this? Waiting until the Cellar has built up a bigger base, rounding up the biggest contributors of intelligent material (maybe 400 or 500 of 'em? who knows), then starting a members-only site, with the whole invite-only deal in effect. Maybe a couple public boards, and maybe everything would be viewable by the public but they wouldn't be able to sign up and post - that way, they could get an idea about us, and then submit an application. What do you think? Just curious to hear peoples' opinions on this one - obviously, it's Tony that makes the choice, but I just want to hear what everyone else things. Myself, I'm kinda undecided (not that it really matters, like I said). I can see how it'd be great to keep the noise down and the intelligent conversation high, but by the same token, we don't know what we'd miss by leaving it closed. Thoughts?

01-13-2002, 01:40 PM	#10
verbatim Vice-President of Resentment Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Pennsultucky Posts: 199	Someone said earlier that at some point, we do have to change formats. I would not like to see the Cellar fall to the point of, say [H]ard\|Forum . They have some 33499 users, and you can tell. most posts are nothing more than either "hahaha" or "me too" or "this girl likes me". Its rather sad, and although I dont agree with the idea of being "invite-only", it might be a suitable thing to do when we do get to critical mass. But its just something we will have to decide on when we get to that point, because we might just as possibly stop getting users to join. It could be years before that happens. __________________ <-- I'm with stupid

02-12-2002, 02:03 AM	#11
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Hmm well. A: big vbullien forums SUCK. Megatokyo comes to mind, much of the attraction here for me (and others i'm gueessing) is that you get to know people, you don't get that most places. As for invite only, i don't think its needed, i mean we've had a few wankers (asdfasdf comes to mind as the latest) they seem to trail off on their own. I mean its up to 350 odd members, when i came here it was about 100, nd there is about 20odd at least semi-regualr posters, i don't see it as an issue, yet. An eliteist culture on the basis that "i've been here longer, therefore my opinion matters more", is something that should be avoided at all costs. Even if it was admission only, who decides who gets in? What are we going to ask? political views? hope not. Are you going to be an annoying wanker? See my point, its not as easy as putting up a form. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

01-11-2002, 10:56 AM	#2
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	It's not only me that makes the choice because the Cellar is not me; it's me plus all y'all. If everyone simultaneously decided that it was not worthy, it would die. There's nothing much special about me being the one who put this up here. It's all y'all that make it what it is. But lemme mention how it was in the Philly BBSing land that pre-dates the Cellar. Once the community grew to a certain point, some places developed inner-circle boards that were not visible to the masses. This in turn lead to ugly infighting, as people took to heart the idea that some were elite while others were not. My gut feeling is that a discussion-style forum like vBulletin can only hold so many people until it has to change how it operates. Increasing numbers of forums let it expand comfortably. My gut feeling is also that places like this do not expand forever. Like Usenet, once they reach a critical mass, they become less useful to a lot of people. Around here, we are so comfy with each other right now that conversations become casual and lengthy (and off-topic!) in a hurry. This in turn discourages outsiders, who feel that they can't get into the "clique" and fail to post and eventually fail to read. This also means that it is, in effect, invite-only. If you are specifically invited you feel like you can crash the party safely. If not, you feel like you're butting in. I guess I'm saying that I don't see further growth as a "problem" yet, and possibly something that's self-regulating anyway. But also, the place will change and evolve if it needs to. At a slower pace than the rest of the world, but I hope it will neet all our needs for the long haul, and I promise to try to keep hammering into place the technological bits we need to keep it solid.

01-11-2002, 01:07 PM	#3
Ardax Irrelevant Adulterant Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 43	I'm inclined to agree with Undertoad here. Making a "members-only" club that you have to get invited into has the potential of essentially making the only people who want to post the people with voices. A similar thing happened with the BBS scene on the other side of the state. Once "special" areas were set up that you had to be invited into, people started getting upset. Well, once they contained more than free warez and porn that is. Getting into things is somewhat intimidating, as so many people are very comfortable here. At first I thought that it was almost all local peeps until I saw some of the discussion and figured out where some people were from. You just have to jump in I guess -- I hope it's working. This seems like a very comforatble place where people more or less just chat. Everyone's welcome, and it's pretty open. That's really cool, and it's what I love about this place: There's no overriding topic that must be adhered to, no "grand vision" other than getting people together. It has a feel very reminiscent of old-school Usenet or FidoNet. I really liked that kind of feeling, and could never really find any place on it that had quite the same feel -- until I stumbled across this place. I lurked for about a day or two and realized that this is the kind of place I'd been looking for. I don't think that the Cellar is in need of any sort of formal moderation or special status. Things seem to work very smoothly, it's not infested with trolls and other associated twits, and discussion is mostly rational and civil. The sense of community that exists here sets up a naturally high barrier of entry. The community that exists is also fairly self-policing, which helps too. So, those are my thoughts, at any rate.

01-11-2002, 01:35 PM	#4
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	<i>You just have to jump in I guess -- I hope it's working.</i> It is -- you are now a part of us. Now the big question is, are we a part of you?

01-11-2002, 01:58 PM	#5
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Man. I can answer that question for myself: Fuck yes. You're all my good buddies. I just got off the phone with sycamore - he's heading over, and we're gonna probably go hit the Apple Store to lust over some new iMacs, then go home and play some Xbox, ending the night with some PAD GAI (yes, it's all caps like that :P ). I have more respect and appreciation for Tony than I can even say, and I definitely enjoy "knowing" him. tw's "dry as a cracker" when he writes, but I enjoy reading him. I even like Jaggy. For me, the Cellar is something really special. I don't want it to ever go away - especially because it got too popular and the crapflooders started coming here. If we're still a "community", I'll be a member.

01-11-2002, 04:35 PM	#8
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Ah. I thought you meant "CitizenX it" - like, do what they're doing.

01-11-2002, 04:37 PM	#9
Nic Name retired Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,930	... Citizen Exit ... like, they're gone!

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)