Discipline of the Boobie Variety - Page 2

wolf · 02-03-2009, 01:12 PM

Show of hands ... who thought this thread was going to be about something else?

footfootfoot · 02-03-2009, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

we're not judging either of you.

(Actually, I was, a little. But just in my head. And I think Jinx might have been too. And we all know Sundae's feelings about kids right out of the gate... But for the most part, we weren't judging.)

Flint, they aren't gonna want to stay next to mom forever. After a very short time they start to want to explore their independence. They will demand their own bed. They are also easily confounded with a bit of slight of hand. They act like they know what is going on, but they really have no clue.

It's easy to fool them into thinking that their own bed is some special, off limits thing that they must be kept from. You will have them in tears, begging to have their own bed, but timing is everything. If you try to force it and it becomes a test of wills, you will lose even if you win.

Remember diplomacy is the art of telling a man to go to hell in such a way that he is looking forward to making the trip. It's the same with kids.

But you do need your sleep and the road ain't the place for it, even if Juniper insists "Why does it matter where you sleep, as long as you sleep?"

Jaydaan · 02-03-2009, 01:25 PM

Try nursing in one spot all the time (or as much as possible). Try having some aromatherapy such a lavender in that room, as well as music.
In a week or two, try sitting with him with a sippy cup first, Show him the cup, encourage him to drink from it, telling him what a big boy he is, then nursing, a week later, try suggesting more sippy cup, tell him he is such a big boy drinking from the cup. Try making the cup special, maybe get him to pick one out from the store....

Eventually the scent, the relaxing atmosphere, the cup and encouragement should get him to want to wean off, or at least be less demanding. If its in the same place all the time, he might be less likely to be as demanding when not in that room...

It worked for one of mine. She is an adult now, and still likes lavender in her room, and goes to sleep with music on.

footfootfoot · 02-03-2009, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf

Show of hands ... who thought this thread was going to be about something else?

Nah, I kind of had a feeling it was about nursing since it was in the "parenting" section and not behind the curtains in the back of the quality images section.

SteveDallas · 02-03-2009, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf

Show of hands ... who thought this thread was going to be about something else?

Thought or hoped?

LabRat · 02-03-2009, 01:54 PM

When my daughter was 4 mo old, my milk supply started to dry up. Luckily, she was already used to the bottle because she went to daycare. By 6 mo she was completely weaned from the boob. I was hoping to make it to a year.

What if you simulated this same scenerio by pumping before feeding? A little at first, then gradually more at a time. This way when the milk is gone but he is still hungry, you can offer him some cereal (prepped with pumped milk), fruit, whatever. Hopefully he will then associate "real" food with the feeling of satiety, instead of only breast milk.

The trick will be to make sure you don't let him shorten the time between feedings though, or this will just backfire. Eventually, you should be able to stretch that out so that you actually get a full nights sleep.

Good Luck.

Juniper · 02-03-2009, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

But you do need your sleep and the road ain't the place for it, even if Juniper insists "Why does it matter where you sleep, as long as you sleep?"

Well, yeah. Anywhere besides there.

02-03-2009, 02:19 PM

My littlest girl went through something very similar. My oldest two were easy and weaned pretty painlessly, almost on their own, because they forgot to nurse and by the time they remembered, my milk was gone. My littlest, though, she was just as you describe... NEEDED to nurse to fall asleep, nursed for comfort, wouldn't take a bottle, got all of her liquid from the boob, basically. She didn't start sleeping through the night until she was almost four, and she would wake up numerous times throughout the night.

I honestly don't know what to tell you except that patience and time will get you through it. I don't remember how I made it through with my baby... that time is largely a blur. We did end up putting a twin-size bed next to our bed so that, while she had her own sleeping space, I was still present and didn't have to go far to nurse her at night. She's impossible to sleep with... head-buts and kicks and sleeps sideways, and is a noisy sleeper.

In time, she started to understand that other people have boundaries. That's one of the hardest things for kids to learn... that Mama is a whole other person and her body belongs to her... but it's very important. I know it's very popular these days to give breasts cutely little names for the kids to use and I feel that it encourages children to think of them as being a possession that is separate from their mother's bodies, and that can lead to difficulty in weaning, especially if you wean later, because the child perceives that yo are taking away something that belongs to them. Personally I have found that if you are always clear that your breasts are part of your body, and that sometimes nursing is uncomfortable or that you do not always feel like nursing, as the child gets older and starts to recognize their own boundaries, it's easier to accept.

I also recommend never letting your baby hurt you. If they bite, say "OW that hurts mama!" and remove the boob. If you are getting sore, tell your baby that you are sore from nursing so much and, you need a break... not the boobies, but YOU. Building boundaries, and being aware that your breasts are part of you and that you have feelings, are an important developmental step.

It sounds like your son is thirsty, and using you for a drinking fountain. I don't know what kinds of beverages you serve, but if you usually give milk, try instead having water on offer constantly. My youngest would not drink milk from a cup, but she did drink water, and once she developed a taste for it her nursing reduced tremendously. Try giving water with something that increases thirst, like bread, cheese, or even cookies, and see if in time he starts taking more water and nursing less.

He's still really little, and for many babies it's simply normal for them to nurse this much at this age... most of my tips are for weaning an older baby, but they might help you as time goes on. The hard part is getting through this stage intact! Doctors will tell you what's "average", but you have to take that with a grain of salt... just because the "average" baby nurses less and sleeps more doesn't make it at all abnormal for your baby to nurse more and wake up more!

Some parents are concerned that giving water instead of milk will compromise their baby's nutrition. If your child is over a year old, I would not worry about that at all. If he starts drinking water instead of nursing to satisfy his thirst, he will also start eating more because he'll be hungrier without the milk satisfying his nutritional needs.

Above all, take the best care of yourself that you can, and try not to feel guilty about your frustration or feelings of anger. It's normal and OK to feel that way, you just need to find ways to make this easier on both of you, whether it's adapting your life to met his needs, or trying new methods to coax him to change his habits.

Sundae · 02-03-2009, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

(Actually, I was, a little. But just in my head. And I think Jinx might have been too. And we all know Sundae's feelings about kids right out of the gate... But for the most part, we weren't judging.)

Not fair!
I have no idea how to wean children, don't pretend to and have no judgements stated or hidden re Pooka's situation. My opinions on the behaviour of children start when they reach school age.

Pie · 02-03-2009, 02:39 PM

(I think that was the joke, SG. Folks like you and me have little advice and even less knowledge to offer!)
I was reading this thread out of curiosity as to what people's responses would be. Again, the Cellar is full of useful, helpful people. In this situation, I am not one of them.

Pooka · 02-03-2009, 03:01 PM

I guess what it comes down to is that Flint and I want the kids in bed at a regular time and want to have adult time together... alone. That is what we want and need on a personal level… to unwind and relax. Flint from his work stress and me from my kid stress. Considering Flintsy was sleeping better than ever in his own bed not that long ago... he can get there again... (I'd be ok with the occasional every 2 hour day but don't want it to be status quo... and I don't think it is good for him either) I'm just not sure how to help him get there. We do not want to resort to breaking our backs by sleeping on the couch.

I understand where Flintsy is coming from... when he wasn't feeling good I was with him 24/7 and had boobie available at all times because he was vomiting and having trouble breathing... just trying to keep food in him and help him feel better because he was so miserable. I’m sure he thought it was nice having so much attention from Mama and so much boobie (who can blame him) and as we were sick for a month he grew to expect that... so when we were all better he wanted to continue, but the rest of us are ready to got back to life as usual. They say it takes 30 days to make a habit and 100 days to brake one. I just don't have 100 days to break this. That’s the help I need...

I should point out that he sleeps in his toddler bed for naps just fine... and wakes and continues to play in his room until I open his door… when he rejoins his sister at whatever activity we happen to be involved in… usually lunch. So, there is no reason he couldn't do it at night ... the problem is soothing himself at night when he wakes up... he wants boobie to sooth him because this is what he thinks he has to have to go to sleep… but he doesn’t as he proved months ago.

I need... FOR ME... to have him nurse less... and I feel pretty confident that once he is nursing a more reasonable amount and eating and drink more real food he will be less winy and clingy again...he needs it and I need it for my sanity... so I can be a better parent... and wife and person... without it... I am literally going to loose my mind. I rarely ask for much for myself... but this is something I really need at this point in my life.

Bottom line. Flint and I agree it is time for Flintsy to go back to his bed and sooth himself to sleep... he can visit occasionally in our bed, but I think he deserves to have the independence to go to sleep on his own... now that he is over a year old... and again I stress... he was sleeping in his toddler bed... all night ... not that long ago. He was fine… until we all got sick in December. Yes I agree… there will be a time when he won’t want to sleep with me… and I’ll be sad for sure… and I do love snuggling him at night when he actually sleeps and doesn’t flail and gyrate and slap me and kick me and scream and attack the boobie on the hour or every other hour. Co-sleeping is great if you get to sleep… but that isn’t happening for me so much these days and I’ve reached a level where I feel mean I’m so drained and crowded… I feel like I need a few inches of personal space at least or I’m going to snap.

Jaydaan · 02-03-2009, 03:17 PM

Is he maybe still not feeling well? Perhaps something still lingering... it sounds like he is stressed when not with you, almost like he is afraid he is going to get sick more/or again. Perhaps he is associating that sick feeling to you not being there...... both at that age are terrifying.
Maybe sleeping with something of mama's might help? T-shirt, dare I say, pillow (I am quite attached to my pillow, not sure I could share, but if it got me another 30 mins of sleep I would do it)

Is he on any vitamins? it was a long time ago, but I remember my little ones having some liquid vitamins from the health food store, before they could go to the chewables. Maybe reinforcing the " no more sick stuff" or the "keep you strong and healthy" I used the "chase away the sniffles" line, as you give him the vitamins will placebo him enough to help him settle?

Sounds like you have a mama's little one, and while its draining you now, when he is 13 and still wants to hang out with mom, it will be great! So I guess its try anything/everything you can think will work for your situation and hope something works for you!

Pooka · 02-03-2009, 03:24 PM

He is definitly Mama's boy... 13... yeah... he need to survive to 13 lol...

I really think it is a behavioral issue at this point. I could try the pillow... he does like my pillow... I guess I could use his.

He takes the liquid nasty smelling vitamines when I feel like fighting him... it is a full out knock down battle to put anything other than a boob in that boys mouth.

Jaydaan · 02-03-2009, 03:32 PM

The pillow might work, maybe something along the lines of "you can use mommy's pillow, but you have to use it in your big boy bed"?

Also, maybe you can have someone take him to the park for an hour.. just so you can have a hot bath, or a quick nap? Something to re-charge you?

Children are a frustrating thing... We love them, and will neglect ourselves to care for them... but sometimes you just have to have a *me* day! In some cases a *me* hour!! When we were dealing with our oldest son's behavioral issues, we ended up breaking everything down into hours, even blocks of time, say breakfast to lunch, was too long. His issues are much more severe, but we learned a lot that might work for "normal" kids.

Undertoad · 02-03-2009, 03:34 PM

Is there a way to slightly sour human breast milk?

02-03-2009, 01:12 PM	#16
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Show of hands ... who thought this thread was going to be about something else? __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

02-03-2009, 01:54 PM	#21
LabRat twatfaced two legged bumhole Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,143	When my daughter was 4 mo old, my milk supply started to dry up. Luckily, she was already used to the bottle because she went to daycare. By 6 mo she was completely weaned from the boob. I was hoping to make it to a year. What if you simulated this same scenerio by pumping before feeding? A little at first, then gradually more at a time. This way when the milk is gone but he is still hungry, you can offer him some cereal (prepped with pumped milk), fruit, whatever. Hopefully he will then associate "real" food with the feeling of satiety, instead of only breast milk. The trick will be to make sure you don't let him shorten the time between feedings though, or this will just backfire. Eventually, you should be able to stretch that out so that you actually get a full nights sleep. Good Luck. __________________ Strength does not come from how much weight you can lift, or how many miles you can run. It comes from knowing that you set a goal, and rose to the challenge. Strength comes from within.

02-03-2009, 02:39 PM	#25
Pie Gone and done Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 4,808	(I think that was the joke, SG. Folks like you and me have little advice and even less knowledge to offer!) I was reading this thread out of curiosity as to what people's responses would be. Again, the Cellar is full of useful, helpful people. In this situation, I am not one of them. __________________ per·son \ˈpər-sən\ (noun) - an ephemeral collection of small, irrational decisions The fun thing about evolution (and science in general) is that it happens whether you believe in it or not.

02-03-2009, 01:25 PM	#18
Jaydaan Knight of the Oval-Shaped Conference Table Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Vernon, BC, Canada Posts: 378	Try nursing in one spot all the time (or as much as possible). Try having some aromatherapy such a lavender in that room, as well as music. In a week or two, try sitting with him with a sippy cup first, Show him the cup, encourage him to drink from it, telling him what a big boy he is, then nursing, a week later, try suggesting more sippy cup, tell him he is such a big boy drinking from the cup. Try making the cup special, maybe get him to pick one out from the store.... Eventually the scent, the relaxing atmosphere, the cup and encouragement should get him to want to wean off, or at least be less demanding. If its in the same place all the time, he might be less likely to be as demanding when not in that room... It worked for one of mine. She is an adult now, and still likes lavender in her room, and goes to sleep with music on.

02-03-2009, 02:19 PM	#23
Tiki Guest Posts: n/a	My littlest girl went through something very similar. My oldest two were easy and weaned pretty painlessly, almost on their own, because they forgot to nurse and by the time they remembered, my milk was gone. My littlest, though, she was just as you describe... NEEDED to nurse to fall asleep, nursed for comfort, wouldn't take a bottle, got all of her liquid from the boob, basically. She didn't start sleeping through the night until she was almost four, and she would wake up numerous times throughout the night. I honestly don't know what to tell you except that patience and time will get you through it. I don't remember how I made it through with my baby... that time is largely a blur. We did end up putting a twin-size bed next to our bed so that, while she had her own sleeping space, I was still present and didn't have to go far to nurse her at night. She's impossible to sleep with... head-buts and kicks and sleeps sideways, and is a noisy sleeper. In time, she started to understand that other people have boundaries. That's one of the hardest things for kids to learn... that Mama is a whole other person and her body belongs to her... but it's very important. I know it's very popular these days to give breasts cutely little names for the kids to use and I feel that it encourages children to think of them as being a possession that is separate from their mother's bodies, and that can lead to difficulty in weaning, especially if you wean later, because the child perceives that yo are taking away something that belongs to them. Personally I have found that if you are always clear that your breasts are part of your body, and that sometimes nursing is uncomfortable or that you do not always feel like nursing, as the child gets older and starts to recognize their own boundaries, it's easier to accept. I also recommend never letting your baby hurt you. If they bite, say "OW that hurts mama!" and remove the boob. If you are getting sore, tell your baby that you are sore from nursing so much and, you need a break... not the boobies, but YOU. Building boundaries, and being aware that your breasts are part of you and that you have feelings, are an important developmental step. It sounds like your son is thirsty, and using you for a drinking fountain. I don't know what kinds of beverages you serve, but if you usually give milk, try instead having water on offer constantly. My youngest would not drink milk from a cup, but she did drink water, and once she developed a taste for it her nursing reduced tremendously. Try giving water with something that increases thirst, like bread, cheese, or even cookies, and see if in time he starts taking more water and nursing less. He's still really little, and for many babies it's simply normal for them to nurse this much at this age... most of my tips are for weaning an older baby, but they might help you as time goes on. The hard part is getting through this stage intact! Doctors will tell you what's "average", but you have to take that with a grain of salt... just because the "average" baby nurses less and sleeps more doesn't make it at all abnormal for your baby to nurse more and wake up more! Some parents are concerned that giving water instead of milk will compromise their baby's nutrition. If your child is over a year old, I would not worry about that at all. If he starts drinking water instead of nursing to satisfy his thirst, he will also start eating more because he'll be hungrier without the milk satisfying his nutritional needs. Above all, take the best care of yourself that you can, and try not to feel guilty about your frustration or feelings of anger. It's normal and OK to feel that way, you just need to find ways to make this easier on both of you, whether it's adapting your life to met his needs, or trying new methods to coax him to change his habits.

02-03-2009, 03:01 PM	#26
Pooka Your Invisible Rabbit Friend Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Betwixt and Between Posts: 528	I guess what it comes down to is that Flint and I want the kids in bed at a regular time and want to have adult time together... alone. That is what we want and need on a personal level… to unwind and relax. Flint from his work stress and me from my kid stress. Considering Flintsy was sleeping better than ever in his own bed not that long ago... he can get there again... (I'd be ok with the occasional every 2 hour day but don't want it to be status quo... and I don't think it is good for him either) I'm just not sure how to help him get there. We do not want to resort to breaking our backs by sleeping on the couch. I understand where Flintsy is coming from... when he wasn't feeling good I was with him 24/7 and had boobie available at all times because he was vomiting and having trouble breathing... just trying to keep food in him and help him feel better because he was so miserable. I’m sure he thought it was nice having so much attention from Mama and so much boobie (who can blame him) and as we were sick for a month he grew to expect that... so when we were all better he wanted to continue, but the rest of us are ready to got back to life as usual. They say it takes 30 days to make a habit and 100 days to brake one. I just don't have 100 days to break this. That’s the help I need... I should point out that he sleeps in his toddler bed for naps just fine... and wakes and continues to play in his room until I open his door… when he rejoins his sister at whatever activity we happen to be involved in… usually lunch. So, there is no reason he couldn't do it at night ... the problem is soothing himself at night when he wakes up... he wants boobie to sooth him because this is what he thinks he has to have to go to sleep… but he doesn’t as he proved months ago. I need... FOR ME... to have him nurse less... and I feel pretty confident that once he is nursing a more reasonable amount and eating and drink more real food he will be less winy and clingy again...he needs it and I need it for my sanity... so I can be a better parent... and wife and person... without it... I am literally going to loose my mind. I rarely ask for much for myself... but this is something I really need at this point in my life. Bottom line. Flint and I agree it is time for Flintsy to go back to his bed and sooth himself to sleep... he can visit occasionally in our bed, but I think he deserves to have the independence to go to sleep on his own... now that he is over a year old... and again I stress... he was sleeping in his toddler bed... all night ... not that long ago. He was fine… until we all got sick in December. Yes I agree… there will be a time when he won’t want to sleep with me… and I’ll be sad for sure… and I do love snuggling him at night when he actually sleeps and doesn’t flail and gyrate and slap me and kick me and scream and attack the boobie on the hour or every other hour. Co-sleeping is great if you get to sleep… but that isn’t happening for me so much these days and I’ve reached a level where I feel mean I’m so drained and crowded… I feel like I need a few inches of personal space at least or I’m going to snap.

02-03-2009, 03:17 PM	#27
Jaydaan Knight of the Oval-Shaped Conference Table Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Vernon, BC, Canada Posts: 378	Is he maybe still not feeling well? Perhaps something still lingering... it sounds like he is stressed when not with you, almost like he is afraid he is going to get sick more/or again. Perhaps he is associating that sick feeling to you not being there...... both at that age are terrifying. Maybe sleeping with something of mama's might help? T-shirt, dare I say, pillow (I am quite attached to my pillow, not sure I could share, but if it got me another 30 mins of sleep I would do it) Is he on any vitamins? it was a long time ago, but I remember my little ones having some liquid vitamins from the health food store, before they could go to the chewables. Maybe reinforcing the " no more sick stuff" or the "keep you strong and healthy" I used the "chase away the sniffles" line, as you give him the vitamins will placebo him enough to help him settle? Sounds like you have a mama's little one, and while its draining you now, when he is 13 and still wants to hang out with mom, it will be great! So I guess its try anything/everything you can think will work for your situation and hope something works for you!

02-03-2009, 03:24 PM	#28
Pooka Your Invisible Rabbit Friend Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Betwixt and Between Posts: 528	He is definitly Mama's boy... 13... yeah... he need to survive to 13 lol... I really think it is a behavioral issue at this point. I could try the pillow... he does like my pillow... I guess I could use his. He takes the liquid nasty smelling vitamines when I feel like fighting him... it is a full out knock down battle to put anything other than a boob in that boys mouth.

02-03-2009, 03:32 PM	#29
Jaydaan Knight of the Oval-Shaped Conference Table Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Vernon, BC, Canada Posts: 378	The pillow might work, maybe something along the lines of "you can use mommy's pillow, but you have to use it in your big boy bed"? Also, maybe you can have someone take him to the park for an hour.. just so you can have a hot bath, or a quick nap? Something to re-charge you? Children are a frustrating thing... We love them, and will neglect ourselves to care for them... but sometimes you just have to have a me day! In some cases a me hour!! When we were dealing with our oldest son's behavioral issues, we ended up breaking everything down into hours, even blocks of time, say breakfast to lunch, was too long. His issues are much more severe, but we learned a lot that might work for "normal" kids.

02-03-2009, 03:34 PM	#30
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Is there a way to slightly sour human breast milk?

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