Life under GWB

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by marichiko

You have a point, HM. Never-the-less, look at the make up of the Sierra Club, The Nature Conservancy, and the ACLU, just to give a few examples. Very few of their members make less than 10K/year and those who do are most likely college students.

Originally Posted by Tonchi

I have made a high of 52K in my best year in the 80's

Ladies please, compare the attitudes of the guy making $50k to the guy making $300k. Or the guy with real clout making a million.

I respectfully ask for a retraction.

California chicks never cease to amaze me. Retraction of what? My opinion? Get real.

[Tonchi]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Ladies please, compare the attitudes of the guy making $50k to the guy making $300k. Or the guy with real clout making a million. California chicks never cease to amaze me. Retraction of what? My opinion? Get real.

OK, so now we know that Bruce considers 52K in 1984 as chump change and does not qualify me as a Master of the Universe. We don't have an icon for mooning, do we? And no, I am not a California Girl. I am a Southern Girl who has lived in 6 other states and I'm here right now for the UCSD Thornton Hospital Pulmonary Medicine and Critical Care Division and because my only US relatives happen to be here. In cases where you are expected to die, it's helpful to have somebody around to bury you.

I was not asking you to retract an opinion, I asked you to retract an unfair generalization, which I understood is fair game at this forum. You are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own facts.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I didn't say $50k was chump change.
We're talking about life under Bush which is not the 80s.
You're in CA, right?
Flash your ass at your own risk.
What you call an "unfair generalization" is my opinion, go back and read the fucking post.
I called nothing a fact so work on your reading comprehension while your at it.
I retract nothing. :p

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Ladies please, compare the attitudes of the guy making $50k to the guy making $300k. Or the guy with real clout making a million. California chicks never cease to amaze me. Retraction of what? My opinion? Get real.

You are asking us to compare attitudes of people in different income brackets. In other words, you wish us to make a generalization as to what their attitudes might be. I think you're splitting hairs on this one, Bruce.

[xoxoxoBruce]

No, I want you to get out of your microcosm and find out what the rest of the population think.
Birds of a feather flock together and haven't a clue what the other flockers think.
UT gave you the data but you say it shouldn't be that way. That's your opinion but obviously the polls show the public doesn't agree with you.
Fine, you're entitled to your view but don't try to represent it as the majority view. You may be the voice of reason or the cry in the wilderness but in the end, you are just you.

[busterb]

My quality of life has deteriorated under GWB, because of Katrina and the great COL. increase upcoming for next year. BTW I don't belive he's in the drivers seat anyway. WTF!

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by marichiko

I actually think those with good incomes would be more worried about the environment, for example. They have the freedom from other worries to think of the big picture rather than the small day to day one of personal survival.

WHOA.

first off, i can;t believe I actually read one of your posts.

second: people with good incomes usually have JOBS. that can severely hamper your ability to reflect upon anything other than getting through your day with only 24 hours available. I lived in a van for 3 months in a row, and while i did have to discover dinner everyday, i have never felt more at peace.

Originally Posted by multichiko

As someone with a degree in biology/ecology

You can cite (however many degrees in this and that that you want, you're still looking at the world from an entitled viewpoint....(and yet, somehow, you manage to sound snobby at the same time)... no one owes you anything. survive, or die, just stop holding your hand out.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

No, I want you to get out of your microcosm and find out what the rest of the population think.
Birds of a feather flock together and haven't a clue what the other flockers think.

Hey, I'm open, Brurce. I actually tried to find data that gave a breakdown of attitudes and concerns by the income brackets you mentioned, but couldn't find one. So where's your cite on that? I'd be honestly curious to see it.

Originally Posted by lumberjim

WHOA.

first off, i can;t believe I actually read one of your posts.

Errrr... Actually you didn't

Originally Posted by lumberjim

second: people with good incomes usually have JOBS. that can severely hamper your ability to reflect upon anything other than getting through your day with only 24 hours available. I lived in a van for 3 months in a row, and while i did have to discover dinner everyday, i have never felt more at peace.

What's the matter? Can't chew gum and scratch your nose at the same time? Of course folks have jobs. But most of 'em also have this thing called free time unless they're workaholics or something. I used to commute up to Denver for a job that I spent 9 or 10 hours a day at. The commute took me another 3 hours minimum. That was like a 12 hour day. On my drive I'd listen to NPR and worry about my pet things to worry about. Since stuff like the basics was covered, I'd worry about the Oklahoma City bombing, the elections, the environment, whatever else crossed my mind. It doesn't take a rocket scientist.

Maybe you should go back to living in your van.

Originally Posted by lumberjim

You can cite (however many degrees in this and that that you want, you're still looking at the world from an entitled viewpoint....(and yet, somehow, you manage to sound snobby at the same time)... no one owes you anything. survive, or die, just stop holding your hand out.

This is why I know you haven't been reading my posts. Where in this thread have I been holding my hand out? A concern for the environment (to continue with my example) does not arise out of a sense of entitlement, but rather a sense of responsibility and a concern for the serious issues that I see both this nation and the planet at a cross roads over. Am I snobby to admit that I have a college degree? You admit that you are a hotshot at a car dealership. I might call you a snob for that, but I don't.

Again, it is merely intellectual laziness to go back to an argument that is at least a year old and which I haven't even set forth in this thread, instead of dealing with the issues that I have raised in the here and now.

If you want to jump all over someone about entitlements, why don't you jump on Patrick? He raised that issue in regard to his son, I didn't.

[lumberjim]

well, for starters, his son doesn't whine incessantly on a message board that i frequent. And, I like Spode.

Am I snobby to admit that I have a college degree?

admit? interesting choice of words. no, if it was an admission, someone else would have had to bring it up repeatedly, right? when you do it, it's self promotion.

And. I didn't say I read your posts. i said i accidentally read ONE of your posts. I must have forgotten to look at the author, and as it was a relatively short one, i was through it before I realized what I was doing.


cock.

Originally Posted by lumberjim

And. I didn't say I read your posts. i said i accidentally read ONE of your posts. I must have forgotten to look at the author, and as it was a relatively short one, i was through it before I realized what I was doing.


cock.

Well, young man, see that you don't make that mistake again!

cock

[lumberjim]

OH SHIT. i'm up to three now. man, it;s insidious

[Elspode]

"Oh, I've said It again! Oh, there, I said It again! There It is again!"

-The Knights Who Until Recently Said Nicht

[Elspode]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

well, for starters, his son doesn't whine incessantly on a message board that i frequent. And, I like Spode.

I'll try to watch the whining on my son's behalf lest I offend.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Hey, I'm open, Brurce. I actually tried to find data that gave a breakdown of attitudes and concerns by the income brackets you mentioned, but couldn't find one. So where's your cite on that? I'd be honestly curious to see it.

Stop acting the librarian and talk to people, better yet shut up and listen to people, outside your social circle.

Originally Posted by Bruce

Disagree. What I see is economic strata has a large bearing on the individuals view of those subjects.
There are, of course, exceptions. But I don't think it's an unfair generalization.

Cites? Do you see one thing in that entire post that's stated as anything other than opinion from personal experience? One stated "fact"?

Do you hear a hew and cry from ANY economic strata other than the environmentalists that make it their preoccupation if not occupation?
GWB has given us plenty of serious shit to worry about, very scary stuff, and the bunnies have taken a back seat.
Like it or not that's reality....or should I say priority.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Stop acting the librarian and talk to people, better yet shut up and listen to people, outside your social circle.

How does one talk to people outside one's social circle, Bruce? What? Should I go to an upscale neighborhood and start knocking on doors and invite whoever answers to have an informal rap session with me? As a matter of fact, I do have an acquaintance who is a millionaire. She mostly talked about her problems finding a good nanny and how her husband refused to accomodate his work schedule to her afternoon jogging routine. Pretty shallow, all in all, but I'd hardly extrapolate from her to millionaire's in general. I'm sure that some have found excellent nannies for their children.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Cites? Do you see one thing in that entire post that's stated as anything other than opinion from personal experience? One stated "fact"?

Well, I don't know what post you are thinking of, but my question was in direct responses to this:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Ladies please, compare the attitudes of the guy making $50k to the guy making $300k. Or the guy with real clout making a million.

I'm sorry my social circle isn't wide enough for your liking, Bruce. I have the one millionaire passing acquaintance; I know a number of people whose income is probably around $50K, and, offhand, I can't think of anyone I know to really speak to in the $300K bracket. Maybe you'd like to invite me to your next poker party, so I can broaden my horizons.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Do you hear a hew and cry from ANY economic strata other than the environmentalists that make it their preoccupation if not occupation?
GWB has given us plenty of serious shit to worry about, very scary stuff, and the bunnies have taken a back seat.
Like it or not that's reality....or should I say priority.

Way back a thousand posts ago, this was my answer to the the question in the OP:

We have lost civil liberties, environmental safeguards have been cut back or discarded completely, spending on the country's infra-structure has been disregarded in favor of spending on an unneccessary foreign war that takes more American and other human lives every day, fewer people have access to medical care, more children are homeless - the list goes on ad nauseum.

I agree that this country faces many grave issues of which the environment is only one, and that environmental concerns may not be as much a priority to other people as they are to me. I picked environment out of the list as an example of something that people on "entitlements" probably wouldn't be so concerned about - that's all.

I am more worried about the war in Iraq, the economy, and the loss of civil liberties than I am the environment, anyhow. I think things won't go to hell environmentally for another 30 -50 years, at which point, I'll most likely be dead and buried, and since I don't have any children, my concern for the environment is rather abstract, at best.

I leave it to the young 'uns to worry about the bunnies coming home to roost.