Ruling that race cannot be a factor upsets - duh

http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/06/28/sc...ace/index.html

Story Highlights
• Court tosses out public school choice plans that consider race
• The 5-4 ruling rejected programs in Louisville, Kentucky, and Seattle, Washington
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote opinion for conservative majority

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A bitterly divided U.S. Supreme Court on Thursday issued what is likely to be a landmark opinion -- ruling that race cannot be a factor in the assignment of children to public schools.

Finally!

"The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race," Roberts wrote.

Perfect.

What a bunch of morons.
Democratic debaters blast court's race ruling

[fargon]

I thought that we were done with that shit. Has Dr. King's vision died.

[Uisge Beatha]

No, his vision hasn't died. The problem is that racism hasn't died, either. You can't force people to think one way or another, but through education you might get them to actually think for themselves, instead of following through with foolish patterns they've always known. Maybe.

[BigV]

Goal: Desegregation, diversity.

Method: Be blind, be lucky.

Have integrated schools, but don't use race as a factor in achieving integration.

We (the government) will look at the ratios of race in schools. But you (the administrators) must not look at race when distributing the students among the schools.

Perfect.

An analogy:

The government builds a highway. It's wide and smooth and straight. You could travel 100 mph on it. But the law says that the maximum speed is 60 mph. The officers have to enforce the law. How can they do that without "discriminating" who's speeding?

"The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race," Roberts wrote.

Roberts makes a mistake in this statement. He uses the word discriminate in two different contexts, without clearly differentiating the two contexts and their corresponding different meanings. On Fox News, this kind of behavior is the norm. I won't accuse Roberts of being disingenuous or even sly, but he is being misleading.

"The way to stop discrimination [unfairly choosing] on the basis of race is to stop discriminating [perceiving, observing] on the basis of race," Roberts wrote.

To stop the practice implied in the first instance is a noble goal, and worthy of our best efforts. To stop the practice implied in the second instance is hopelessly unrealistic, and to indulge so in the name of being a strict constructionist shows lazy thinking at best.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Busing kids all over creation, to balance classrooms, creates more resentment and hate than it cures. Plus the enormous expense that could be better spent on improving the facilities, not to mention the pollution.

[piercehawkeye45]

This is a very tough situation that we probably should have avoided in the first place.

It is very common knowledge that inner city schools are much worse than suburban or schools out in the country. 1 in 6 minorities go to a school that is 99% or 100% black and Latino.

Basically what we have is deadly cycle that keeps itself in place. The minorities get a very bad education with no motivation to succeed so they naturally drop out and stay in the inner city where their kids will repeat the process. The suburban kids get a very good education (to our standards at least) with a lot of motivation to succeed so they naturally go to college and live in the suburbs where their kids will repeat the process.

This is a very strong argument for the integration of schools to break up this process and to just say "fuck you" to the inner city kids is unacceptable and is the cause of a lot of the problems we see today in the inner city.

The problem with integration of schools is that someone has to pick who will be integrated, who will go to a better school and who will go to the bad school, and that everyone will be going home to a homogenous neighborhood anyways.


I believe something should be done to work on integrating society as a whole and this is one possible step but I don't think it is effective as many think it is. There should be other ways. Separate but equal is never acceptable though.

[xoxoxoBruce]

These kids have been bused all over the place for 35 years. It hasn't worked, it will not work, busses are not the answer.

The only thing bad about the bad schools is the attitude of the students. That's the fault of the parents and all the busses in the world won't change that.

[piercehawkeye45]

I agree that busing is not the answer but the student's attitude is reactionary to society as well. They know that society does not care about them and it is natural to then rebel against society, this type of reaction can be seen by children on every social class. There are numerous examples of middle and upper class children shooting up schools because they have felt betrayed by society. Then with the lower class, many more children will feel betrayed by society and then rebel against it.

Is this attitude 100% justifiable? No, but it at least shows us where a problem exists and allows us to help find a solution for that problem.


You are also right about the fact that much fault of the attitude is because of a lack of parenting but I have a real hard time believing that the entire fault lies with the parents as individuals. I hold a job with all adult working class Americans and all of them have two jobs because they can not support themselves with one. Only half of them have kids and a spouse as well. Keep in mind this is also the working class (lower middle class) so it only natural to assume that the lower class gets hit a lot harder. If a single parent has to work 70 hours a week just to pay the bills, it leaves very little time to watch and teach their children. Some sort of day-care is needed because the current system does not allow time for parenting.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Society doesn't care about them? Do you think society cares about you? About me?
Clue... Society doesn't give a hairy rat's ass about anybody, until they become a problem, in which case the problem will be eliminated as expediently as possible.

[DanaC]

But.....society is us; we are society, do we not care about ourselves?

[piercehawkeye45]

Society works in favor of some people more than others.

[richlevy]

It's not just race, it's also class. Especially in areas with a lot of students in private schools, public schools are defunded until they cannot achieve.

In parts of the south after desegregation, there was 'white flight' to private schools and the public schools were left to decline.

The only path to quality education is to force all levels of society to have a direct stake in it's success. Technically, they do, but many people do not understand this. If Paris Hilton or GWB had been forced to attend an inner-city school, their parents would have made sure that there was enough money for books.

Certainly, part of the problem is parents who have been through the system and have given up. The other side of the problem is the system composed of civil servants and run by politicians, many of who have also given up. At this point the system is so overwhelmed that many resources are just being diverted to keeping children safe.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by richlevy

The only path to quality education is to force all levels of society to have a direct stake in it's success.

I've got to disagree with you Rich. I assume your son's education would have been inadequate without your personal committment. Society is a fuzzy enough concept as to be completely without meaning. I went to a pretty bad public school and will not be forced to put my children through that nightmare. I'm not big on defunding public schools, but I do get bent out of shape when borderline schools spend confiscated dollars on swimming pools and football stadiums. We spend enough money on schools in this country, but it's like health care, we misallocate resources.

[elSicomoro]

I wonder if we'll ever figure out what a level playing field really is. It's talked about a lot, and a lot of folks think it can be easily implemented. But as people, I think we dislike difference by design and that it's reinforced further as we grow older. It's kinda like communism--nice-sounding in theory, but hard as hell to put into reality.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by Griff

We spend enough money on schools in this country, but it's like health care, we misallocate resources.

It's sad when music programs get defunded, but I find it appalling when students don't have textbooks. Did anyone see the recent I-Team on the Philadelphia School District? Two guys alone spent $33,000 in 3 years.

First of all,considering that these guys are more likely buying services and not selling them, they shouldn't have had to pick up the tab. And if it was all school district employees, then they shouldn't have been eating in the Four Seasons.