New policy for the Cellar

[Undertoad]

I'll tell you what the bigger insult is: it's assuming that I would somehow become Mr. Sweetness and Light Heavy-ass Moderator, pressing this issue like it was the biggest piece of shit that ever landed on your doorstep, and continuing that assumption after the reasoning for this policy change had become clear.

I've removed 4 users, I think, in 14 years.

COUNTLESS SPAM MESSAGES AND SPAM USERS. About 200 of 'em. You never got pissed at that... should I stop moderating those? Should we make a fucking policy message? Or should we trust UT's judgement like we have all this time?

And two threads.

Well, thank you for your vote of trust.

[lumberjim]

tony,

would you mind answering whit's question, please?

I am of the opinion that this site is free, and participation is completely voluntary, so anything we put up here can be deleted at any time and that is well within your rights.. In fact, I'd like to say that participation here is a priveledge, not a right, and if you want to erase every seventh post arbitrarily, that's up to you and only you. I'm under the impression, though that you DO get something out of the cellar, otherwise, you'd simply turn off the server, and go on with your life. And...you'd rather not delete content.

So, I'm not worried, and will continue as i have done in the past, to post exactly what's on my mind. I mean, this is all just a long conversation anyway, right? just words. we're not chartering the constitution here, people. I have spent a fair amount of time composing my "tour" thread, and i care about it, but I did it in word, AND SAVED IT. I really dont think this "policy change" is a policy change at all. Its simply demarkation of a line that should heve been visible to everyone anyway.

dont fuck with anyone's personal life......fair enough?

but, i think the masses need to hear it from you.

[kerosene]

Originally posted by Undertoad
Or should we trust UT's judgement like we have all this time?

I vote for this one.

I have also laid low on this whole incident, but I don't understand why folks are so upset about UT making this decision. After all, this is and has been his forum. In the past, we DID trust his judgement. He didn't have to ask anyone's permission or get community support (though, on several occasions did) to delete an account or lock threads. Why should he have to for this? Obviously, he has strong personal reasons for this, but despite that, it IS his forum, just as it WAS his forum before. He has been gracious to share it with us, just as he is now, as he continues to do so. I don't see how this action was so far outside the previous guidelines for the cellar, as juju has implied.

Personally, I have always had a certain level of respect for UT for all that he has to do to keep the cellar afloat. If it weren't for his participation as administrator AND moderator, we would likely experience a lot more frustration with no boundaries in place to keep out the riff raff.

I know it isn't common to hear me rant, so I am sorry if I have offended anyone. I just wanted to share my 2 cents and make a note that I think UT is being beat on a bit too much for deleting a couple of threads.

I also want to say to those who feel the need to leave or, sort of leave, that I wish you wouldn't. Juju, I have always enjoyed reading what you have to say. You said that you take hours, sometimes, to complete a post, and it is obvious with some of the insights you have shared. I would be saddened to see you leave. Sycamore, I know you have decided to remove the Manifestos, but doing so takes one of the things away that I look forward to everyday. I am sure several others would say the same. Please consider putting all this in the past and going back to the dialog that makes the cellar such a fun place to visit.

Okay, rant over. I'll now go back to being that quiet voice in the corner.

[Undertoad]

LJ, I REFUSE to say exactly what I'm going to moderate.

If I do, I'm absolutely certain that it will be used against me.

"Look, look, he's violating the Official Code! Foul!"

People are asses, and they will use what I've said to march triumphantly right up to the line and not cross it: "But you said we could insult people endlessly, as long as we didn't talk about how ugly their relatives are!"

I know what to moderate and what not to moderate. I'm a fucking genius at it, in my own massive ego, and righteously pissed that you all don't acknowledge my obvious superiority.

OK that was a joke.

[Beestie]

Not bad points, case. I've composed and erased several composed posts in this thread.

There seems to be a notion of squatters rights that I don't seem to get. Just because I've been sittin on my buddies couch for the last couple years does not all of the sudden imply that I now control ( or have any say about) the remote.

Would anyone here really mod the board any differently? My guess is no. If someone took a dump on your head wouldn't you be hacked and piss on a couple fire hydrants to assert (and remind) everyone whose house this is? I would and I bet you would too.

I don't know all the ins and outs of what's going on (none of my business, really) but I don't see what the big deal is (not with the "problem" but with the "molehill in a telescope" being made of the post-Problem Cellar). Same ole Cellar, same ole UT as far as I can tell.

I used to hang out on another message board that, with all due respect, was nearly as good as this one - we all knew each other, blah, blah, blah. One day, it was gone and I thought I lost a freakin' limb. That was a couple years ago. Enjoy it while its here and try not to presume too much - its not real estate - it can vanish in the time it takes to hit "RELOAD."
[/soap box]
edited to indicate whose points I said weren't bad since UT's post sqeezed in between mine and case's.

[lumberjim]

Originally posted by Undertoad
LJ, I REFUSE to say exactly what I'm going to moderate.

If I do, I'm absolutely certain that it will be used against me.

"Look, look, he's violating the Official Code! Foul!"

People are asses, and they will use what I've said to march triumphantly right up to the line and not cross it: "But you said we could insult people endlessly, as long as we didn't talk about how ugly their relatives are!"

I know what to moderate and what not to moderate. I'm a fucking genius at it, in my own massive ego, and righteously pissed that you all don't acknowledge my obvious superiority.

OK that was a joke.

THAT'S GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME...

.....ANY OF YOU FUCKERS GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT?

[wolf]

Originally posted by Undertoad
I know what to moderate and what not to moderate. I'm a fucking genius at it, in my own massive ego, and righteously pissed that you all don't acknowledge my obvious superiority.

I do.

[blue]

.....ANY OF YOU FUCKERS GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT?

See, all we really need is a good virtual bouncer.

[OnyxCougar]

Well, some things have been cleared up for me now.

Things that should have been kept private were not, and fucktards tried to use personal information against people.

This situation got well out of hand, and Tony took steps to damage-control.

What is so horrible about that?

I would expect nothing less from him, and in fact, I think I would have lost some measure of my respect for him if he HADN'T took steps to limit the damage being done.

If you are one of the people that LIKES to be a fucktard (meaning, being personally insultive and hurtful because you fucking feel like it), then yeah, you got something to worry about. (I'll name names... Dave, FnF.) And I think that those kind of people are the ones everyone should be mad at.

I trust Tony to continue being Tony. And I appreciate all he does here.

Thank you, Tony.

[juju]

Originally posted by Undertoad
1) In this case, I swear to fucking Christ almighty, there is nothing more than what you've now been told. But given that the whole thing evolved over you getting ticked off around a problem that you couldn't be told about, and that this is now clear... why on EARTH would you press this question?

Well, I already knew everything (as far as I know), and I've known for a while. So, it's not like this is a great revelation to me. But, really, I don't care. It has nothing to do with me -- I'm not involved. I don't know why you think I'm pissed about it. I never said anything to suggest so.

I only wanted the thread locked instead of deleted. When I suggested so, you said, "If you don't like the new rules you can fuck off your own self." That's pretty rude. As far as I know, I offered a reasonable, courteous suggestion and you offered me unprovoked rage for no reason.

I only brought it up now because you brought it up. You said, "Entire marriages are more important than Juju's fucking time." If you're going to bring up something that criticizes me, and I don't understand what you mean, I'm going to ask you what you mean.

Originally posted by Undertoad
2) He wouldn't care. Almost certainly not. 99.999% chance. BUT: do you like the odds? Wouldn't you do whatever you could to ensure that a completely innocent situation, aggravated by a set of morons, one acting psychotic and clearly bent on causing harm in any way possible for no reason at all -- messed with a marriage -- AT ALL?

Since you asked, I'll respond. If I were in your situation, this would be my line of thinking.

If they can't trust each other in a situation like that, then they have problems that won't be solved by anything I could do. Seriously, 0.001%? No sane person would care about what happened. It's tame -- you crossed no lines. I certainly would not cover something up knowing I did nothing wrong. Why bother? It only makes it look like something bad happened when it didn't.

Now, don't try to give my opinion here more value than it's worth, and go off on me trying to defend yourself. I'm only giving my opinion here because you asked. I'm not involved and it's none of my business. Moderation policies are my business, personal drama isn't.

Originally posted by Undertoad
I'll tell you what the bigger insult is: it's assuming that I would somehow become Mr. Sweetness and Light Heavy-ass Moderator, pressing this issue like it was the biggest piece of shit that ever landed on your doorstep, and continuing that assumption after the reasoning for this policy change had become clear.

I've removed 4 users, I think, in 14 years.

COUNTLESS SPAM MESSAGES AND SPAM USERS. About 200 of 'em. You never got pissed at that... should I stop moderating those? Should we make a fucking policy message? Or should we trust UT's judgement like we have all this time?

This IS true. However, you've been extremely emotional and (from my point of view) irrational lately. It's a complete change of character, and I worry that you have cast aside your principles. Perhaps I am wrong. But it's hard for me to determine when, instead of answering questions, you flame me when I don't think I've done anything to provoke it. If you make a major change to your moderation policies, why can't I question the decision?

You people that are saying, "It's his board and he can do what he wants" -- I don't think you understand that for years and years he has professed the exact opposite philosophy. Now, maybe he still believes in that. I think it's very fair and reasonable for me to ask if that's true. I don't think it's an inflammatory question at all. But, obviously, by making such a statement, you've missed every single time that he's said otherwise.

Anyway, however you have decided to be, I don't see why you have to hold some angry torch for me over it. So I questioned you. So what?

With the utmost respect, I still would like the following questions answered:

Originally posted by juju
Who is 'you'? Is 'you' me?

What are you going to do if I don't leave? Delete my posts?

I don't understand why you're so mad at me. You're really beating your keyboard? What did I do to incite this? I really would like this explained, as I've always attempted to avoid behavior that I thought would create such a reaction in anyone.

[edit - changed 'asking questions' typo to 'answering questions']

[elSicomoro]

Tony owns the board…he has the right to do whatever he wants with it. I don’t agree with how he is handling things right now…and that’s fine. I have the right to disagree.

But let this shit die already. If you’re cool with things as they are, stay. If not, leave, and quit bitching about it. This is getting really fucking stupid.

And so, I’d just like to say that it’s been a pleasure chatting with you all, but I believe that it’s best that I take an extended leave. Feel free to PM me, IM me, or stop by the Sycamoreland website, which I should have back up and running in the next month or so. I’ll still be in the CD exchange, so I’ll be looking forward to hearing some tunes.

Adios.

[juju]

Sorry, Syc. I just wanted to know why he hates me.

[lumberjim]

Originally posted by sycamore


And so, I’d just like to say that it’s been a pleasure chatting with you all, but I believe that it’s best that I take an extended leave. Feel free to PM me, IM me, or stop by the Sycamoreland website, which I should have back up and running in the next month or so. I’ll still be in the CD exchange, so I’ll be looking forward to hearing some tunes.

Adios.

yeah, right.....talk to you tomorrow, hammer

[Undertoad]

Originally posted by juju
Sorry, Syc. I just wanted to know why he hates me.

Hey Juju, remember a few days ago when I wasn't expressive enough for ya?

How ya like me now, assface?

Don't yank my crank and then ask why I got cranky.

[Undertoad]

And one more thing: if you don't know where I got pissed, you aren't capable of judging those 0.001% odds, either.

You don't know where the line is, so you'll cross it by accident. And then sorry won't be enough.