London Bombing

[mrnoodle]

how many more will have to die before the rest of the world finally sees these people for what they are and what they represent? i'm sorry about your town, jag. we have a common enemy, if nothing else. here's to the heroes of Britain, who will rise up just as ours did after 9/11.

[vsp]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

how many more will have to die before the rest of the world finally sees these people for what they are and what they represent?

Define "these people" and do it carefully.

[lookout123]

Jaguar - thanks for posting, i'm glad to hear you are safe. DanaC doesn't check in much anymore, but i hope she does sometime soon.

Hobbs- it is an extremely rare event when i agree with VSP, but this is one of those times. these attacks weren't carried out by "muslims", "islam", "allah", etc. Islamic Extremists (most likely al quaeda) who distort the islamic faith through their twisted view of how the world should be chose to kill people. they have little in common with the millions of everyday muslims who woke up and were disgusted by the news just as you were today.

I am a Christian. the guy who was killing abortion doctors called himself a christian. i prefer not to be lumped in with his homicidal stupidity.
One of my friends is mormon. he prefers not to be lumped in with the polygamist, incestuous fools in colorodo city, AZ.
Wolf is a pagan. she prefers not to... sorry my ignorance of her faith prevents me from carrying this to the end.

the point is that for evey religion or philosophy there are going to be people that will twist and distort it to fit their political or social view of the world. we can't fall into the trap of hating "muslims" because some shitbags from a virulent strain of that faith feel it necessary to go around killing innocent civilians. that would be just as ridiculous as a non-american hating all americans because we are wealthy capitalists raping the world for our entertainment. stereotypes are bad, mmkay?

that being said, my views from the past haven't changed. we should hunt down those involved in this and fuck them up. the problem is that they expect to be hunted down and killed, it is part of their plan to create a global revolution against those they oppose. in the end a decision will have to be made - are attacks like these crimes? or are they acts of war?

if they are crimes then we can only respond by searching for those that were involved, charge, convict, and punish them within the justice system. rule of law and all that jazz, you know?

if these are acts of war, then game on. you hunt them down, you kill them. people who choose to associate with them? kill them too. someone gives them safe harbor? kill them. at some point in time they will all be dead and no one will like the odds of rising up in their place. of course, there are problems inherent in that solution, too.

[Radar]

It could be worse. At least they're English. j/k

Seriously though, I highly doubt this attack would have occurred if it weren't for Bush going to the UK and for the UK supporting Bush in his outrageous, insane, and unconstitutional war of aggression in Iraq which has no legitimate justification.

That being said, I still hope they find those responsible and hang them up by their short and curlies, or just let the families of those they killed beat them to death with baseball bats.

[mrnoodle]

Originally Posted by vsp

Define "these people" and do it carefully.

Instead, I'll let you guess. Here's a hint: they're the ones blowing shit up.

One of the freedoms they want to take away is your right to automatically side with the people who are attacking you and your allies. You should be worried, too. Why is there always SOMEone who wants to turn the spotlight around on political correctness instead of the really bad things that are happening in the world?

[vsp]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

Instead, I'll let you guess. Here's a hint: they're the ones blowing shit up.

Then your previous comment is inane, as the vast majority of the rest of the world _does_ view people who blow up commuter vehicles as being ignorant, mass-murdering fuckwit criminals, which is what they are and what they represent.

But thanks for playing.

[mrnoodle]

So if you knew who I was talking about, and agreed, was there any point to the wholly inappropriate, confrontational tone of your post? Other than to get someone to say something you could label "racist" and have a knee-jerk leftist orgasm over?

[wolf]

Everybody needs to see this movie.

"Muslims" are no more responsible for today's horror than "Christians" are for shooting abortion clinic doctors.

It's about individuals, not groups.

[Queen of the Ryche]

thank you Wolf. (you PAGAN, you. )

[mrnoodle]

But since the topic has come up, here's your racist comment (go get the vibrator first, I'll wait).

Islamic terrorists are the enemy. Sorry wolf, the word "Islamic" cannot be separated from "terrorist" because the religion is not one of peace -- it's one of warfare, murder, cowardice and hatred. You who are so quick to attribute these things to Christianity...why are you so afraid to do the same for Islam? I know there are huge numbers of muslims who are not guilty of murder and who would never consider the act (or would they?) But they follow a religion that is almost totally dedicated to the eradication of Jews and Christians, and has never hidden the fact. Sure, thugs have appropriated it for their own murderous agendas, but that doesn't mean that the original agenda wasn't equally disgusting.

People who quote Leviticus and the harsh punishments for sin in the old testament refuse to quote the same passages in the koran.

You want to eliminate Christianity from public places, but turn your head when Islamic-rooted hatred actually results in the deaths of thousands. You don't want to take the fight to the enemy, you want to take them to court and put them in therapy to deal with their anger-management issues. Watchdogs constantly go to Gitmo to make sure the air conditioners are at the right setting, while the occupants plot new ways to get bombs on your busses, your planes, in your neighborhoods. People are so fucking blind.

[vsp]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

So if you knew who I was talking about, and agreed, was there any point to the wholly inappropriate, confrontational tone of your post? Other than to get someone to say something you could label "racist" and have a knee-jerk leftist orgasm over?

If I knew who you were talking about in your vague generalization of "these people," I wouldn't have asked for clarification, which should be fucking obvious. Your statement made no sense with the least objectionable interpretation ("these people" == today's bombers), and if you were casting your net wider than that intentionally, I'd just as soon see you state that explicitly before calling you an asshole for doing so.

We've already had one "Islam and its followers are evil" yutz in this thread, and whether or not you're #2 is up to you. Referring to me as "siding with the attackers" makes you a gold-plated shithead, but there's still plenty of wiggle room as to what additional kinds of shithead you may be. By all means, continue digging your hole.

EDIT: Ah, I see you didn't disappoint. Bravo!

[mrnoodle]

I suppose it was the fucking Norwegian Bikini Team that's been doing all this, then?

I don't want to fight with people on this forum, really. I was trying to show support for jag (!) and the people who were attacked, and as usual, someone turned it into an orgy of PC self righteousness.

I understand turning the other cheek. But at some point you have to look at WHO IS DOING THE KILLING. The people you wish to embrace are plotting your death right this minute. When will you see? They don't want to be your damn friends. They don't want your compassion, they don't care whether you go to bat for them against the old mean Republicans. They want your body blown to shreds for Allah.

[Queen of the Ryche]

no, it was A FEW SELECT EXTREMISTS who warp the name of Islam by using it as an excuse for their atrocious actions. Repeat after me: NOT ALL ISLAMISTS / MUSLIMS ARE MURDERING WACKOS - JUST A FEW WHO GIVE THE REST A BAD NAME. got it? good. class dismissed.

[mrnoodle]

I suppose some people here are dimwitted enough that I need to say:

"NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE BAD"


fucking A.


You actually think I'm full of hate and ignorant right-wing propoganda, don't you? You actually think that I get off on people dying. Retards. If the Muslims wanted their religion to be one of peace, they would take it back from the people who are running it now. They don't, so they won't.

It is not a handful of extremists. It's the party line.

I'm going to have a stroke. Chill time. I get mad at the bastards waging war on our country, and everyone else gets mad at the people who get mad.

[lookout123]

But they follow a religion that is almost totally dedicated to the eradication of Jews and Christians, and has never hidden the fact

that isn't true mrnoodle. in the earliest days of Islam, not only did the islamic tribes co-exist with the jewish community, they provided protection. jews and christians are referred to as "people of the book" in the earliest islamic teachings. that means that they worshipped the same God, but had strayed in the specifics of the faith.
it wasn't until later that treachery created a deep chasm in islamic/jewish/christian relationships.

INDIVIDUALS perverted, and continue to pervert, the islamic faith. INDIVIDUALS perverted, and continue to pervert, the christian faith.

quit getting so wrapped up in "muslims are bad, evil people". focus instead on the fact that many people are bad, evil creatures. some of these happen to use religion as their rallying point so that they can gather sheep to their murderous flock. the average muslim/christian/jew isn't sitting in their basement working on a dirty bomb. they are going about their daily lives doin the best they know how to do, trying to keep their families safe from the scum and villainy that has, and always will, plague humanity under different names.

if we allow paranoia and hate to make us see a terrorist behind every muslim, then they have won, we have lost and the world is just waiting for it to become official.

hunt down and destroy the guilty. don't disparage the innocent. don't allow righteous anger to twist into blind hate, otherwise you become that which you oppose.