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03-19-2004, 02:19 PM | #16 |
Coronation Incarnate
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tw....
We sometimes hear that Islamic fundamentalism is "inconsistant with democracy". In your judgment, how true would that statement be? In America, we observe the conflict between the highly vocal (but normally not physically violent) Christian fundamentalists and the attempts of others to maintain a democracy, where no one's strictly religious beliefs are forced on others, and that situation is problematic enough. |
03-19-2004, 03:10 PM | #17 | |
Read? I only know how to write.
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Quote:
Islamic fundamentalism is based upon the principles of religion. Those principles are ordered by 'interpretation' of clerics and by the 'emotion' on which religion is based. Islamic fundamentalism was as good for government as a Kingwas good for government. Some (religions and dictatorships) do good for people and culture; others are destructive. Since then we have advanced to a better 'inferior' system of government. Democracy can work when religion is removed from the process. Democray based upon religion is the unstable situation in Iran; where democracy really does not exist. Government only by religion and dictators is the unstable situation in Saudia Arabia (unstable but not in the form so often believed by Americans). And so we again have the real purpose of any religion. A relationship between you and your god (period). Once your religious beliefs are imposed upon others, then we have 'religion gone wild' - and the resulting videos if they can be leaked out. Lets keep something in perspective. Not all people want democracy. If not obvious from the interviews by BBC et al; almost no one in Iraq even knows what democracy is (except in Kurdish areas). How could they want something that they don't even understand? The current administration says Iraqis want democracy while Iraqis in the street think democracy means a dictator government that does not torture. Democracy means the people must take responsibility - still a foreign concept to many people. This requirement still is not understood in many parts of the world where government and religion are considered same. IOW first the people must learn what democracy is; that government and religion are two separate entities. Such concepts are completely foreign in a large part of the third world. Last edited by tw; 03-19-2004 at 03:14 PM. |
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03-19-2004, 04:14 PM | #18 |
Radical Centrist
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Just like those dirty Japs. Warlike, religious, completely foreign to western Democracy. Why it has never taken anywhere in that area of the world.
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03-20-2004, 09:04 AM | #19 | |
Coronation Incarnate
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tw wrote:
Quote:
I have always maintained that members of the human race, generally, are motivated by a desire for simple, authoritative answers, and it really doesn't matter all that much who is providing them. We tend to like it when there's a written 'handbook' to which we can always refer, or a spokesman who can come out and explain how we should be feeling or thinking about any given subject. Given that, and especially combined with a tradition that has really known and taught nothing else, I can see where the idea of a truly secular government might be anathema to many people...and I'm speaking of people in America pretty nearly to the same extent as those in Iraq. |
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03-20-2004, 09:08 AM | #20 |
Coronation Incarnate
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Having just read the last line of my previous post, I was suddenly struck by the irony of the government of the United States being currently focused on two major efforts - the installation of a secular democracy in Iraq, and the nationwide codification of laws prohibiting gay marriage.
Wow! |
03-20-2004, 10:32 AM | #21 | |
The future is unwritten
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Quote:
Hey, it worked before.
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03-20-2004, 02:41 PM | #22 | |
Operations Operative
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Quote:
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03-20-2004, 02:47 PM | #23 | |
whig
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Quote:
The bigger issue in Iraq is the extremeist external elements that are stirring up trouble along the lines that divide the different sects of Islam. Kind of like the catholics and protastants killing each other. Unless those rifts can be healed there will never be a stable democratic government. That takes decades of peace, at least. It took Switzerland centuries. And for fucks sake, make a goddamn Kurdistan already, you'll solve about 3 conflicts in one.
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Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain Last edited by jaguar; 03-20-2004 at 02:49 PM. |
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03-20-2004, 05:04 PM | #24 |
The future is unwritten
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I was under the impression, Turkey strongly objects to a Kurdistan.
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03-20-2004, 09:11 PM | #25 |
I think this line's mostly filler.
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Hard to say why. I suspect that if there were a Kurdistan, Turkey might be able to get rid of their Kurds. But maybe they're worried that they'd take their land with them.
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03-20-2004, 09:54 PM | #26 |
The future is unwritten
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Yeah, now I remember. They don't want a Kurdistan that's contiguous with their border.
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