Columbia Has Apparently Broken up on Reentry

Elspode · 02-01-2003, 08:54 AM

Well, conspiracy theorists...how about the space shuttle Columbia (I'm a moron, I wrote "Challenger" originally, and edited it...) breaking up on reentry with the first Israeli astronaut aboard?

Even if it was a systems failure and not sabotage, will our government let this opportunity to fully justify a war in Iraq go by?

What a frigging tragedy, and a terrible blow to our space program.

Pie · 02-01-2003, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elspode
Well, conspiracy theorists...how about the space shuttle Challenger breaking up on reentry with the first Israeli astronaut aboard?

Dude, it was the Columbia. We lost the Challenger a long time ago... (1986)

Time to put the Atlantis and Discovery in the Smithsonian. The things are too old to do their jobs safely.

Time to invest in some new technology.

- Pie

Chewbaccus · 02-01-2003, 09:43 AM

The Israeli bit is suspicious, unfortunate, but I don't think it holds a lot of water. Columbia left under the tightest security ever because of this guy. It was out of range of any surface-to-air missiles, and I have to believe that if someone DID get a bomb aboard, they would have detonated it during launch instead of landing. Leaving a bomb up there longer, no matter how well concealed, greatly increases the risk factor of it being discovered and dealt with safely.

I think the most likely explanation is that whatever fell off the nose of the external fuel tank - ice, insulation, whatever - and hit furter back on the shuttle dislodged a ceramic tile or two, the crew inspected, deemed it tolerable damage, and were just wrong.

~mike

Elspode · 02-01-2003, 09:52 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Pie

Dude, it was the Columbia. We lost the Challenger a long time ago... (1986)[/QUOTE

Quote:

Time to put the Atlantis and Discovery in the Smithsonian. The things are too old to do their jobs safely.

Time to invest in some new technology.

- Pie [/b]

Whoops...I'm an idiot. I knew that. I was sitting here talking to the wife about the Challenger explosion as I was typing this. I agree that it is time to bring something new and better online.

Elspode · 02-01-2003, 09:58 AM

The line running from Northwest to Southeast is apparently the track made by the disintegrating shuttle Columbia...

elSicomoro · 02-01-2003, 12:34 PM

Oh my God...I just woke up and thought you were bullshitting, Elspode.

The granddaddy of the shuttles...at a time in which the space program was going forward better than ever. And at a time when everybody is on edge.

Elspode · 02-01-2003, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore
Oh my God...I just woke up and thought you were bullshitting, Elspode.

I hold the space program in almost religious reverence. I would *never* bullshit about something like this. I have all the respect in the world for the brave souls who ride these screaming machines for the betterment of all humanity.

A terrible thing happening at a terrible time. Let us hope that cool heads are at work right now. FWIW, the current administration line is that there's no way it could have been an act of terrorism, and they are absolutely right, from my point of view. Catastrophic system failure, either in attitude control or shuttle structure, would be the most likely, I think.

It really sucks...

elSicomoro · 02-01-2003, 01:00 PM

From what I've watched thus far, cool heads seem to be the case, which is, of course, a good thing.

I hope this doesn't put the space program on lock down for a long period of time. Hopefully they will find out what happened as soon as possible. After all, there are currently 3 people at the ISS.

wolf · 02-01-2003, 02:20 PM

I've been watching the footage in disbelief most of today, and await the information from the crash investigation.

I did note the timing to be unfortunate ... this is a bad time of year for NASA ... Apollo I, Challenger, and now Columbia ... all of their fatalities occuring around the same time of year (1/27, 1/28, 2/1) not exact anniversaries, but close enough to be of note.

mw451 · 02-01-2003, 06:34 PM

It's just sad, so sad...

I was reading the newspaper, and my daughter has been sick this week, and she was watching cartoons all morning. At around 1PM, my wife starter flipping thru the channels, (we were recently "upgraded" to digital cable, so all the channels are now different). She got to CNN, it showed "Shuttle Columbia Tragedy" on the screen as a fireball streaked across the sky, (it also showed "Live", but it wasn't).

At first I thought it was a UFO or some asteroid, then I saw the Columbia Tragedy part again. Then, it sunk in, I sat for a few seconds, mouth agape, and just said "What?" ???

Then reality sunk in, and learning it happened hours ago, I was truly saddened, and bummed. Thinking that they'll delay the space program again. I love space, the stars and planets and my telescope, and always watch the launches on NASA TV, I was sad.

God Speed to our Astronauts who'll never come home, but you will not be forgotten, for you are now forever remembered...

And have escaped the bonds of Earth...

mw

Nothing But Net · 02-01-2003, 07:16 PM

We can only hope that their deaths were not particularly prolonged or horrific.

I do believe that the communications from the shuttle were not cut off so abruptly as shown on TV today. There is a tape delay, and I would bet there is something disturbing that is not being shown to the public.

MaggieL · 02-01-2003, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nothing But Net

I do believe that the communications from the shuttle were not cut off so abruptly as shown on TV today.

Well, you can go ahead and believe that, but the last transmission cut off in mid-syllable, so abruptly that my suspicion is that the transmitting antenna onboard Columbia disconnected from the transmitter at that moment. CAPCOM had just said "We didn't copy your last, over." so the downlink was probably intermittant just before that.

S-Band antennas 2 and 3 are embedded in the orbiter skin just forward and slightly below the left and right wing root leading edges, respectively. Houston tried to reestablish contact on UHF, but by then it was way too late.

Uryoces · 02-02-2003, 03:05 AM

Our entire school sat in a darkened gym and watched the shuttle Columbia land for the first time in 1981. We cheered like nuts when it touched down. Even watching it sit on the dry lake bed getting fanned off was rivetting, but the principal wouldn't let us sit for another hour.

My 6th grade teacher Mrs. Kidrick had a love of aerospace, so everything we did was aerospace and shuttle related. We won 2nd place in a national contest when we simulated a shuttle launch, orbit, and landing in our classroom. I saved every clipping, magazine, and photo I could of the shuttle.

My American Lit teacher Mr. Anderson was in the running for the teacher in space program in 1986. He and Sharon Christa McAuliffe were in the top 5 for the slot, but she got it. He went home early on January 28, 1986...

I woke up feeling kind of woozy from all the cider, Mike's Hard Lemonade, and Wingdome Rasta chicken wings and plunked myself down on the couch. I turned on the TV and saw the words "Columbia" and "Shuttle tragedy" in the same sentence on the news.

I reached for the phone to call my mom, but she passed away last year in July. I sometimes forget.

Ferris Beuhler: "What have you seen today?"
Cameron Frye: "Nothing good..."

Griff · 02-02-2003, 08:46 AM

This accident has got me reflecting on our space program. I think we have to admitt that its going nowhere. How many tons of payload have the shuttles hauled over the years and to what end? We have one puny space station, hubble the one real acheivement, a lot of military hardware, and countless comm satellites which really don't require this kind of complex delivery.

Governments control access to the frontier of space. America doesn't work without a frontier, our culture can't be productive without a place for free people to dream about. Instead of looking outward, we look inward toward controlling our fellow citizens and lets face it the rest of the planet. We need that frontier. Someone needs to wrest it free from the State. I can't really mourn astronauts, they're the few who've been allowed into what shouldn't be an exclusive club. They are the fortunate ones, even if their lives were wasted for petty goals. Thats the tragic part, I guess, they lost their lives on a bureacracies small step, intead of something more worthy.

When I'm an old man and we still have no sizable permanent presence in space, I'll be sad for humanity. I was born in '64 when I was a kid man's conquest of space was inevitable. A broad section of humanity from different disciplines would be creating human communities on a limitless frontier, what a wonderful idea. Somehow the shuttle program ended up being an end in itself rather than a tool toward that greater goal.

Elspode · 02-02-2003, 10:05 AM

I must fervently disagree with your positions, Griff. The exploration of space is an incredibly complex undertaking, time consuming and expensive. While governments may not be the most fiscally efficient means of pursuing this frontier, the scope of the undertaking is, IMO, out of the grasp of "the people" on an individual or small group scale. There are amateur rocketeers working their way to a suborbital launch sometime in the next year or two, but so what? They're going to lob a box up and back down. The superpowers did that 45 years ago. Smaller commercial launch ventures, sans the backing of governmental entities are close to achieving orbital capability, but look how long it has taken.

We put the best of the best in our astronaut programs, and it is because the tasks we ask them to perform are, on the whole, difficult, varied and needing much intellectual capacity and dedication to discharge effectively. No offense, but neither you nor I are likely to qualify, now or back when we were unsullied and pure.

We explore space because we need a frontier, that I agree with, but not strictly because the government needs it. Humanity needs it. If there's nothing to strive for, even vicariously, what's the point of all this?

02-01-2003, 08:54 AM	#1
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	Columbia Has Apparently Broken up on Reentry Well, conspiracy theorists...how about the space shuttle Columbia (I'm a moron, I wrote "Challenger" originally, and edited it...) breaking up on reentry with the first Israeli astronaut aboard? Even if it was a systems failure and not sabotage, will our government let this opportunity to fully justify a war in Iraq go by? What a frigging tragedy, and a terrible blow to our space program. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog Last edited by Elspode; 02-01-2003 at 09:49 AM.

02-01-2003, 09:43 AM	#3
Chewbaccus Freethinker/booter Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 523	The Israeli bit is suspicious, unfortunate, but I don't think it holds a lot of water. Columbia left under the tightest security ever because of this guy. It was out of range of any surface-to-air missiles, and I have to believe that if someone DID get a bomb aboard, they would have detonated it during launch instead of landing. Leaving a bomb up there longer, no matter how well concealed, greatly increases the risk factor of it being discovered and dealt with safely. I think the most likely explanation is that whatever fell off the nose of the external fuel tank - ice, insulation, whatever - and hit furter back on the shuttle dislodged a ceramic tile or two, the crew inspected, deemed it tolerable damage, and were just wrong. ~mike __________________ Like the wise man said: Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

02-01-2003, 09:58 AM	#5
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	Shuttle Track Shows Up on Radar The line running from Northwest to Southeast is apparently the track made by the disintegrating shuttle Columbia... Attached Images __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

02-01-2003, 02:20 PM	#9
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	I've been watching the footage in disbelief most of today, and await the information from the crash investigation. I did note the timing to be unfortunate ... this is a bad time of year for NASA ... Apollo I, Challenger, and now Columbia ... all of their fatalities occuring around the same time of year (1/27, 1/28, 2/1) not exact anniversaries, but close enough to be of note. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

02-01-2003, 06:34 PM	#10
mw451 Disorderly Orderly Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Northern Virginia/DC Posts: 53	God Speed... It's just sad, so sad... I was reading the newspaper, and my daughter has been sick this week, and she was watching cartoons all morning. At around 1PM, my wife starter flipping thru the channels, (we were recently "upgraded" to digital cable, so all the channels are now different). She got to CNN, it showed "Shuttle Columbia Tragedy" on the screen as a fireball streaked across the sky, (it also showed "Live", but it wasn't). At first I thought it was a UFO or some asteroid, then I saw the Columbia Tragedy part again. Then, it sunk in, I sat for a few seconds, mouth agape, and just said "What?" ??? Then reality sunk in, and learning it happened hours ago, I was truly saddened, and bummed. Thinking that they'll delay the space program again. I love space, the stars and planets and my telescope, and always watch the launches on NASA TV, I was sad. God Speed to our Astronauts who'll never come home, but you will not be forgotten, for you are now forever remembered... And have escaped the bonds of Earth... mw __________________ The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or... the one. -- Spock

02-01-2003, 12:34 PM	#6
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Oh my God...I just woke up and thought you were bullshitting, Elspode. The granddaddy of the shuttles...at a time in which the space program was going forward better than ever. And at a time when everybody is on edge.

02-01-2003, 01:00 PM	#8
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	From what I've watched thus far, cool heads seem to be the case, which is, of course, a good thing. I hope this doesn't put the space program on lock down for a long period of time. Hopefully they will find out what happened as soon as possible. After all, there are currently 3 people at the ISS.

02-01-2003, 07:16 PM	#11
Nothing But Net Professor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Spring, Texas Posts: 1,481	We can only hope that their deaths were not particularly prolonged or horrific. I do believe that the communications from the shuttle were not cut off so abruptly as shown on TV today. There is a tape delay, and I would bet there is something disturbing that is not being shown to the public.

02-02-2003, 03:05 AM	#13
Uryoces 2nd Covenant, yo Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Pugetropolis Posts: 583	Our entire school sat in a darkened gym and watched the shuttle Columbia land for the first time in 1981. We cheered like nuts when it touched down. Even watching it sit on the dry lake bed getting fanned off was rivetting, but the principal wouldn't let us sit for another hour. My 6th grade teacher Mrs. Kidrick had a love of aerospace, so everything we did was aerospace and shuttle related. We won 2nd place in a national contest when we simulated a shuttle launch, orbit, and landing in our classroom. I saved every clipping, magazine, and photo I could of the shuttle. My American Lit teacher Mr. Anderson was in the running for the teacher in space program in 1986. He and Sharon Christa McAuliffe were in the top 5 for the slot, but she got it. He went home early on January 28, 1986... I woke up feeling kind of woozy from all the cider, Mike's Hard Lemonade, and Wingdome Rasta chicken wings and plunked myself down on the couch. I turned on the TV and saw the words "Columbia" and "Shuttle tragedy" in the same sentence on the news. I reached for the phone to call my mom, but she passed away last year in July. I sometimes forget. Ferris Beuhler: "What have you seen today?" Cameron Frye: "Nothing good..."

02-02-2003, 08:46 AM	#14
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	This accident has got me reflecting on our space program. I think we have to admitt that its going nowhere. How many tons of payload have the shuttles hauled over the years and to what end? We have one puny space station, hubble the one real acheivement, a lot of military hardware, and countless comm satellites which really don't require this kind of complex delivery. Governments control access to the frontier of space. America doesn't work without a frontier, our culture can't be productive without a place for free people to dream about. Instead of looking outward, we look inward toward controlling our fellow citizens and lets face it the rest of the planet. We need that frontier. Someone needs to wrest it free from the State. I can't really mourn astronauts, they're the few who've been allowed into what shouldn't be an exclusive club. They are the fortunate ones, even if their lives were wasted for petty goals. Thats the tragic part, I guess, they lost their lives on a bureacracies small step, intead of something more worthy. When I'm an old man and we still have no sizable permanent presence in space, I'll be sad for humanity. I was born in '64 when I was a kid man's conquest of space was inevitable. A broad section of humanity from different disciplines would be creating human communities on a limitless frontier, what a wonderful idea. Somehow the shuttle program ended up being an end in itself rather than a tool toward that greater goal. Last edited by Griff; 02-02-2003 at 08:49 AM.

02-02-2003, 10:05 AM	#15
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	I must fervently disagree with your positions, Griff. The exploration of space is an incredibly complex undertaking, time consuming and expensive. While governments may not be the most fiscally efficient means of pursuing this frontier, the scope of the undertaking is, IMO, out of the grasp of "the people" on an individual or small group scale. There are amateur rocketeers working their way to a suborbital launch sometime in the next year or two, but so what? They're going to lob a box up and back down. The superpowers did that 45 years ago. Smaller commercial launch ventures, sans the backing of governmental entities are close to achieving orbital capability, but look how long it has taken. We put the best of the best in our astronaut programs, and it is because the tasks we ask them to perform are, on the whole, difficult, varied and needing much intellectual capacity and dedication to discharge effectively. No offense, but neither you nor I are likely to qualify, now or back when we were unsullied and pure. We explore space because we need a frontier, that I agree with, but not strictly because the government needs it. Humanity needs it. If there's nothing to strive for, even vicariously, what's the point of all this? __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

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