Question for smoothmoniker or other music biz buff

Catwoman · 05-10-2005, 10:03 AM

Wasn't entirely sure where to put this, but, having disconsolately dragged myself through the last few months of thankless office work I will EVER do (promise to self) I was wondering if anyone had advice as to how to get into the music biz, more specifically A&R (as this, I believe, is where most young hopefuls start and fail).

Love the idea of traipsing round dirty venues night after night and discovering and nurturing the next Pink Floyd or Jamie Cullum.

(And then probably getting jealous and regretting not starring in my own one-woman rock success aka Pete Waterman)

smoothmoniker · 05-10-2005, 12:40 PM

Kick Ass! I got called out by name in a thread header.

... gimme just a second ...

.... still basking in the awesomeness ...

Ok, now I'm done. If you ask 100 people how they got into the music business, particularly the industry side of it, you'll get 100 different answers. Some started out as studio musicians and migrated over to where the money is, some started out as assistants to the key playmakers and got bumped up when a spot opened. Alot of people get in by working for successful indie labels that get bought by majors. Some come along with the artists - they start out as the van driver for some small artist who keeps getting bigger and bigger, they move up to tour management, then tour promotion, and their long-time loyalty pays off with the credibility to jump to an office downtown. A lot of A&R people seem to be former one-hit artists who don't have a performing career anymore.

A few people come in the same way that you get into any industry - they get a degree in entertainment law (or media marketting, or something), intern with a large record company, and then get hired on.

A&R is a very, very tough gig to land. In most majors, very few people actually have that title by their name, and get paid to troll redneck bars and punk dives to find great new artists. But everybody, I mean everybody, working on the industry side *wants* to be doing A&R, so they do it on their own, in their spare time. When they find an artist, they bring it to the A&R guys and pitch them. If the artist ends up being No Doubt, then that legal secretary who found them and brought them to the decision maker suddenly finds herself with a seat at the table.

So how do you get in? I don't know. Don't have a clue. No two stories are the same. Everybody's break into the industry seems improbable and fantastically lucky, and it is. Anybody who tells you there's a way, or any book you read that shows you the right method, they're lying.

Maybe someone else here can swing a more positive look at it. My job is just to tear down and destroy!
-sm

Clodfobble · 05-10-2005, 01:01 PM

I was on my way into it before I finally landed the videogame gig that I was really aiming for the whole time. Basically I called music studios in town, asking to do an internship (for free.)

The one I ended up at was actually pretty large (even by Austin standards, where EVERYONE has a studio in their basement/garage,) and I met a lot of producers that way when different bands would come in to record. Schmoozing with music producers is the way to go, IMHO. They have all the power, and seem to really have a penchant for helping out people they like (and giving no one else a chance.)

Undertoad · 05-10-2005, 02:15 PM

Many people would qualify to do A&R for my* independent artists label, itsaboutmusic.com. My pal Dean will interview you by phone.

The company's deal is that for a $500 buy-in by the artist, itsaboutmusic.com will release their work for only a 10% commission (they get almost all the revenues), CD & DVD-on-demand at a very reasonable rate ($2 better than CD Baby I think); inclusion in itunes and rhapsody and napster and 100 other music sites, national and international; promotion into any deals the business strikes; promotion to music for commercials to some of the biggest names in that business; packaging and web design; inclusion in samplers to media and such; inclusion into a great community of independent artists, and much more.

All this and itsaboutmusic.com does not require any of the artist's publishing rights. It's the first honest independent record company. More detail is available here

The A&R person's deal is that they get $200 of that up-front fee. If one was diligent one might make a good deal of money this way.

It's more of a co-op than a label, but Dean thinks it is less interesting to people when described that way. SM can rate whether this seems a good deal and I hope he does.

* I say "my" because I have a small piece of it.

smoothmoniker · 05-10-2005, 04:30 PM

How much promotion do you guys do for the artists? If I sign up today, how many samplers would my single go on, and who do they go to? Has the commercial licensing promotion landed any national contracts?

I think it's a very fair deal for the artist as youv'e described it. The thing that would make it a *great* deal for the artist is how successful the promotion and licensing of the content it.

It would be tough to turn the A&R side of it into a full time income though ... you'd have to sign 2 new artists per day to make anything close to a decent living. I know that's not the intent of the program, just pointing it out.

-sm

Undertoad · 05-10-2005, 04:59 PM

There are a number of really promising leads out of this but the promotion end of it has just begun. He just hooked up with the commercials guy about four months ago and we are almost done collecting all the right samples and information for it. The entire operation is barely choking out a little cash in the CD-on-demand part, and a few shekels for me here and there to do the download store. All money basically goes back into the operation.

My feeling is that if I can stick with this, it will be more successful. First step would be bringing the download store to a new level. By offering it on other artists's websites it becomes a sort of a community where artists in the group can make money off each others sales through recommendations and commissions, we handle the technical side for a minimum percentage, everybody wins. We shall see.

Dave Edmunds is selling a lot of downloads! It is cheaper to buy certain things from us than anywhere else, and we only sell 192kbps mp3s.

Clodfobble · 05-10-2005, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothmoniker

It would be tough to turn the A&R side of it into a full time income though ... you'd have to sign 2 new artists per day to make anything close to a decent living. I know that's not the intent of the program, just pointing it out.

Maybe my math's off somewhere... but 2 artists a day would be $400, or about $12,000 a month. You been living in California too long if you think less than $144K a year is not a decent living.

smoothmoniker · 05-10-2005, 08:03 PM

i figured 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year

250 x $400 = 100k, which is a halfway decent living. In LA that's just about enough to own a condo and put away a little something for retirement.

-ml

Clodfobble · 05-10-2005, 08:25 PM

LA is another fucking planet.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-10-2005, 08:37 PM

He's probably thinking of a 5 day week with 2 weeks vacation. That's only $100k. But realisticly, methinks 500 bands/artists per year might be a bit of a stretch.

You wouldn't have any time left to enjoy all the good stuff they have available.

Elspode · 05-11-2005, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

The one I ended up at was actually pretty large (even by Austin standards, where EVERYONE has a studio in their basement/garage,) and I met a lot of producers that way when different bands would come in to record. )

I've got a couple of Austin-based bands performing at our Festival in a couple of weeks...Spoonfed Tribe and Canvas. Do you know 'em?

Clodfobble · 05-11-2005, 12:47 PM

I've heard of Spoonfed Tribe I think, but I've never seen either play. You should try to get them to sign on with UT's label while they're up there.

Catwoman · 05-13-2005, 04:41 AM

Interesting, thanks for your comments. Obviously I'm not in America, so don't know how I could really help with yours UT - unless it's a burgeoning global empire (you never know). I don't have any tangible knowledge of the industry but I know what sounds good; I could loosely be described as a musician but am perhaps more realistically musical - I know what sounds good, I have excellent rhythm (don't) and think I could pick out what my label and the public actually want.

So it's basically a case of 'getting in there' - meeting the right execs/talent etc. People tend to like me when they meet me - well, maybe 'like' is the wrong word - but they certainly see something about me, and I think if I get lucky in the right situation I could be taken under someone's wing. I just don't know how to put myself in these places - hang around recording studio coffee shops? Going to the right parties is all very well if you have an invite. It all looks a bit daunting from the bottom rung.

LCanal · 05-13-2005, 04:50 AM

CW,

Did you look at this? US unfortunately but...

http://www.mgt.smsu.edu/em/profiles/AR%20Rep.html

"It's not who you know it's who knows you".

Catwoman · 05-13-2005, 06:13 AM

Thanks LC. I suppose it's a matter of finding where your true interest lies and following that... with these kind of jobs you can't really 'blag' it. You need to have the genuine passion to keep you working through the night. I think I'd get frustrated with all the demands... I want to be the one demanding! Ah I don't know. I don't know what I want to do.

05-10-2005, 10:03 AM	#1
Catwoman stalking a Tom Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: on the edge of the english channel Posts: 1,000	Question for smoothmoniker or other music biz buff Wasn't entirely sure where to put this, but, having disconsolately dragged myself through the last few months of thankless office work I will EVER do (promise to self) I was wondering if anyone had advice as to how to get into the music biz, more specifically A&R (as this, I believe, is where most young hopefuls start and fail). Love the idea of traipsing round dirty venues night after night and discovering and nurturing the next Pink Floyd or Jamie Cullum. (And then probably getting jealous and regretting not starring in my own one-woman rock success aka Pete Waterman) __________________ I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore.

05-10-2005, 12:40 PM	#2
smoothmoniker to live and die in LA Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,090	Kick Ass! I got called out by name in a thread header. ... gimme just a second ... .... still basking in the awesomeness ... Ok, now I'm done. If you ask 100 people how they got into the music business, particularly the industry side of it, you'll get 100 different answers. Some started out as studio musicians and migrated over to where the money is, some started out as assistants to the key playmakers and got bumped up when a spot opened. Alot of people get in by working for successful indie labels that get bought by majors. Some come along with the artists - they start out as the van driver for some small artist who keeps getting bigger and bigger, they move up to tour management, then tour promotion, and their long-time loyalty pays off with the credibility to jump to an office downtown. A lot of A&R people seem to be former one-hit artists who don't have a performing career anymore. A few people come in the same way that you get into any industry - they get a degree in entertainment law (or media marketting, or something), intern with a large record company, and then get hired on. A&R is a very, very tough gig to land. In most majors, very few people actually have that title by their name, and get paid to troll redneck bars and punk dives to find great new artists. But everybody, I mean everybody, working on the industry side wants to be doing A&R, so they do it on their own, in their spare time. When they find an artist, they bring it to the A&R guys and pitch them. If the artist ends up being No Doubt, then that legal secretary who found them and brought them to the decision maker suddenly finds herself with a seat at the table. So how do you get in? I don't know. Don't have a clue. No two stories are the same. Everybody's break into the industry seems improbable and fantastically lucky, and it is. Anybody who tells you there's a way, or any book you read that shows you the right method, they're lying. Maybe someone else here can swing a more positive look at it. My job is just to tear down and destroy! -sm __________________ to live and die in LA

05-10-2005, 04:30 PM	#5
smoothmoniker to live and die in LA Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,090	How much promotion do you guys do for the artists? If I sign up today, how many samplers would my single go on, and who do they go to? Has the commercial licensing promotion landed any national contracts? I think it's a very fair deal for the artist as youv'e described it. The thing that would make it a great deal for the artist is how successful the promotion and licensing of the content it. It would be tough to turn the A&R side of it into a full time income though ... you'd have to sign 2 new artists per day to make anything close to a decent living. I know that's not the intent of the program, just pointing it out. -sm __________________ to live and die in LA

05-10-2005, 08:03 PM	#8
smoothmoniker to live and die in LA Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,090	i figured 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year 250 x $400 = 100k, which is a halfway decent living. In LA that's just about enough to own a condo and put away a little something for retirement. -ml __________________ to live and die in LA

05-10-2005, 08:37 PM	#10
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	He's probably thinking of a 5 day week with 2 weeks vacation. That's only $100k. But realisticly, methinks 500 bands/artists per year might be a bit of a stretch. You wouldn't have any time left to enjoy all the good stuff they have available. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

05-10-2005, 01:01 PM	#3
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	I was on my way into it before I finally landed the videogame gig that I was really aiming for the whole time. Basically I called music studios in town, asking to do an internship (for free.) The one I ended up at was actually pretty large (even by Austin standards, where EVERYONE has a studio in their basement/garage,) and I met a lot of producers that way when different bands would come in to record. Schmoozing with music producers is the way to go, IMHO. They have all the power, and seem to really have a penchant for helping out people they like (and giving no one else a chance.)

05-10-2005, 02:15 PM	#4
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Many people would qualify to do A&R for my* independent artists label, itsaboutmusic.com. My pal Dean will interview you by phone. The company's deal is that for a $500 buy-in by the artist, itsaboutmusic.com will release their work for only a 10% commission (they get almost all the revenues), CD & DVD-on-demand at a very reasonable rate ($2 better than CD Baby I think); inclusion in itunes and rhapsody and napster and 100 other music sites, national and international; promotion into any deals the business strikes; promotion to music for commercials to some of the biggest names in that business; packaging and web design; inclusion in samplers to media and such; inclusion into a great community of independent artists, and much more. All this and itsaboutmusic.com does not require any of the artist's publishing rights. It's the first honest independent record company. More detail is available here The A&R person's deal is that they get $200 of that up-front fee. If one was diligent one might make a good deal of money this way. It's more of a co-op than a label, but Dean thinks it is less interesting to people when described that way. SM can rate whether this seems a good deal and I hope he does. * I say "my" because I have a small piece of it.

05-10-2005, 04:59 PM	#6
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	There are a number of really promising leads out of this but the promotion end of it has just begun. He just hooked up with the commercials guy about four months ago and we are almost done collecting all the right samples and information for it. The entire operation is barely choking out a little cash in the CD-on-demand part, and a few shekels for me here and there to do the download store. All money basically goes back into the operation. My feeling is that if I can stick with this, it will be more successful. First step would be bringing the download store to a new level. By offering it on other artists's websites it becomes a sort of a community where artists in the group can make money off each others sales through recommendations and commissions, we handle the technical side for a minimum percentage, everybody wins. We shall see. Dave Edmunds is selling a lot of downloads! It is cheaper to buy certain things from us than anywhere else, and we only sell 192kbps mp3s.

05-10-2005, 08:25 PM	#9
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	LA is another fucking planet.

05-11-2005, 12:47 PM	#12
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	I've heard of Spoonfed Tribe I think, but I've never seen either play. You should try to get them to sign on with UT's label while they're up there.

05-13-2005, 04:41 AM	#13
Catwoman stalking a Tom Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: on the edge of the english channel Posts: 1,000	Interesting, thanks for your comments. Obviously I'm not in America, so don't know how I could really help with yours UT - unless it's a burgeoning global empire (you never know). I don't have any tangible knowledge of the industry but I know what sounds good; I could loosely be described as a musician but am perhaps more realistically musical - I know what sounds good, I have excellent rhythm (don't) and think I could pick out what my label and the public actually want. So it's basically a case of 'getting in there' - meeting the right execs/talent etc. People tend to like me when they meet me - well, maybe 'like' is the wrong word - but they certainly see something about me, and I think if I get lucky in the right situation I could be taken under someone's wing. I just don't know how to put myself in these places - hang around recording studio coffee shops? Going to the right parties is all very well if you have an invite. It all looks a bit daunting from the bottom rung. __________________ I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore.

05-13-2005, 04:50 AM	#14
LCanal I hope to be the kind of person my dog thinks I am Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sumatra Posts: 257	CW, Did you look at this? US unfortunately but... http://www.mgt.smsu.edu/em/profiles/AR%20Rep.html "It's not who you know it's who knows you". __________________ "Happiness is like sex. In order to get any good out of it, you have to give it to someone else."

05-13-2005, 06:13 AM	#15
Catwoman stalking a Tom Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: on the edge of the english channel Posts: 1,000	Thanks LC. I suppose it's a matter of finding where your true interest lies and following that... with these kind of jobs you can't really 'blag' it. You need to have the genuine passion to keep you working through the night. I think I'd get frustrated with all the demands... I want to be the one demanding! Ah I don't know. I don't know what I want to do. __________________ I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore.

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