Everything you ever wanted to know about British politics but were afraid to ask...

[Cyclefrance]

Seems those figures for immigrants from Europe were wrong - not 400,000 at all. Revised figure is 600,000 - probably means the true figure is nearer 1.2 million...

Any advances...?

[DanaC]

Have you checked how many of those were/are self-employed? How many are claiming benefits? How many are paying tax? How many are creating, rather than taking jobs?

Britain has an ageing population. We need young, healthy workers to migrate here. Most of the workers coming in from countries like Bulgaria and Romania, are young and contributing more than than they take from the system.

[Cyclefrance]

From BBC News (Full BBC article):

'Nearly 600,000' new EU migrants'

About 600,000 people have come to work in the UK from eight nations which joined the European Union in 2004, says Home Office minister Tony McNulty.
New figures show that 447,000 people from Poland and the seven other new EU states have applied to work in the UK.

But Mr McNulty said the figure would be nearer 600,000 if self-employed workers - such as builders - were included.

He said the migrants were helping the UK economy, but the figures will fuel fears about strains on public services.

And they will increase debate about whether the right to work should be limited when Bulgaria and Romania join the EU.

The figures show those 427,000 migrant workers who successfully registered to work brought with them 36,000 dependents - spouses and children. Some 27,000 child benefit applications were approved.

The government predicted there would be 15,000 people a year from the new EU member countries moving to the UK for work.

But between May 2004 and June 2006 the government approved just over 427,095 work applications.

More than half of those - 264,560 - are from Poland. The other migrants on the worker registration scheme are from the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia and Slovenia.

Mark Boleat, from the Association of Labour Providers, suggested another 100,000, workers or possibly a lot more, had arrived without registering.

The government says the migrant workers are helping to fill gaps in the UK's labour market, especially in administration, business and management, hospitality and catering.

It is believed low salaries in Poland, sometimes around £200 a month, is one reason the country's citizens are attracted to working the UK.

Ursula Gacek, an opposition member of the Senate in Warsaw, who is drafting legislation to encourage Poles to return home, said some recruiters were already offering Poles in London more lucrative salaries.

"I was speaking to a colleague today, and he's recruiting for staff in London, amongst Poles, to come back to Wroclaw, at salaries which are closer to the £500 mark than the £200 or so," she said.

At the moment, there is little sign of a slowdown in the migration flow, with more than 50,000 registering to work in Britain between March and June this year.

The Home Office says they are "making few demands on our welfare system".

As well as those claiming child benefit, 680 people were told they could get income-related benefits.

'Next EU members'

Mr McNulty denied the government had grossly underestimated the number of migrants - it had only predicted the number of people who would settle in the UK.

"These are economically productive individuals who are making significant contributions to our economy," he told BBC News 24.

When the last tranche of countries joined the EU in 2004, the UK was one of only three countries to give full work rights to their citizens.

But Trade and Industry Secretary Alistair Darling appeared to signal at the weekend that the government might agree to new curbs, promising there would be no "open door" policy.

But Mr McNulty said the government had not yet decided whether to impose restrictions on migrant workers from Romania and Bulgaria, which are due to enter the EU in 2007.

The Conservatives say ministers should learn from the "unprecedented numbers" who arrived in the UK after the last EU expansion and impose restrictions on workers from the two countries.

Shadow immigration minister Damian Green said: "These figures make it all the more urgent that the government takes an early decision and stops ducking and diving on the issue of Bulgaria and Romania entering the EU."

Liberal Democrat spokesman Ed Davey said there had been difficulties but migrants had brought many positive benefits.

"Jobs that weren't being done are now being done, productivity improvements, the skills gap in certain sectors being met," he said.

"So I hope we can have a rational debate, a more mature debate and not one that's driven by hysteria."

Former Labour minister Frank Field the number of migrants was unmanageable and made it increasingly difficult for local people to get jobs.

Sir Andrew Green, chairman of Migration Watch UK, said the case for restrictions for Romanians and Bulgarians was now "unanswerable".

The latest figures also show asylum applications fell 24% in 2005 to at 25,710, excluding 5,130 dependants. A total of 69,000 applications, including dependents, were approved.

Between in March and June this year the number of failed asylum seekers removed reached its highest ever at 5,070, including dependants.

There were 5,490 applications, excluding dependants over the same period.

[Cyclefrance]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Have you checked how many of those were/are self-employed? How many are claiming benefits? How many are paying tax? How many are creating, rather than taking jobs?

Britain has an ageing population. We need young, healthy workers to migrate here. Most of the workers coming in from countries like Bulgaria and Romania, are young and contributing more than than they take from the system.

Agree about need for young healthy workers, but what we don't want is to create a situation where the opportunities for both home-grown and imported labour is so poor that this breeds insecurity, dis-illusion and rebellion.

It's the lack of control and awareness that our government seems to display that gives cause for concern. McNulty is one of the most inept ministers I have ever come across - he comes a close second to Prescott - yet he continues to enjoy media attentioon and spokesman status. The numbers of self-employed, etc that you want seem not to be available so we get stabs in the dark from the likes of McNulty (he being the one who claimed that only 400 Polish plumbers had ever come to London, as late as just a few months ago).

I thought that Mc Nulty had been moved away from immigration anyway - wasn't he swapped for a brighter individual, and given a job on the police and crime agenda? Seems he's back in immigration again, judging by the above.

My comment about 1.2 million may seem a little cynical, but it's there to emphasise the lack of credibility and trust in government figures and reporting. I have no problem with sensible immigration but I do share the concerns of many that an ongoing free-for-all policy will bring more problems than solutions.

[Cyclefrance]

Well, long time since this has been updated - and with all those party conferences having been held as well - and the result:

Lib Dems - much of the same really - new leader but no real excitement to the party even so. The tone of the conference seemed to reflect the position of the party amongst the three, almost accepting of its lot and not really going anywhere in a big way.

Labour - 'judge us on our achievements' doesn't seem to do them any favours these days. Rousing words from Tony, but don't analyse the content too much - the substance still isn't there. When will Gordon take over? Who knows - one can almost see Tony deciding in May next year that 'for the sake of the party' he's the only man capable to take them through another election. Don't laugh, I can see it happening...

Tories - blue-green leads the way, grass and sky sandwiching everything that's in between. Dave's spicing up the filling but so far the spice is all that's there - will it be a mouthful that leaves everyone wanting. Great advertising, but the jury's still out regarding how good the filling is that it promotes - and how could it be any other way when the filling is still to be prepared? Lots of nice noises that catch the ear and eye though, and let's face it we have all had enough of labour - sorry NEW labour

[Cyclefrance]

Nice one from Cherie during the conference - overheard calling Gordon a liar. I meant to bring that up earlierbut life has bee, well, just so busy!

One political cartoonist handled it nicely. Cherie sitting in chair turning red with rage and a large strip of sticking plaster stretched across her mouth. Tony calling out to assistant in next room: 'no, when I said I wanted a gag, I meant for my speech...!'

[Cyclefrance]

The UK population has passed 60 million with most of the growth being in the last 10 years. An open door policy from the government probably helped:

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[Cyclefrance]

The immigration door is slowly creaking shut - Home Secretary Reid is not so keen on the prospects of Roumanians and Bulgarians (let alone other countries piggy-backing) homing in on our shores. Some way to go yet and who knows whether or not the Human Rights Act will prove an insurmountable obstacle to his ambitions...

[Cyclefrance]

Hey, guess what? Our prisons are full up - no more places left - just thought any budding criminal immigrants out there would like to know - it's further reason for moving to our shores... Oh, and the Home Secretary has said that he's aware that the alternative arrangements using open prisons will undoubtedly result in an increase in escapes as, basically, they aren't secure enough.

What more could you want..?

I'll be on the next plane to the UK. Wanna meet me at the airport?

[JayMcGee]

We should send all the excess criminals to Australia..... worked before....

You sent them to the American colonies, as well, and now look at the mess the world has on its hands.

[JayMcGee]

nah, that was the religious nuts we sent there, marichiko.......

In that case, I think we should return the favor and send them back to Britain. Heh! Good luck, cousins!

[Cyclefrance]

Hitting the headlines in today's papers is the proposal by the government to hit migrant workers from Bulgaria and Roumania with £1,000 spot fines if found to be working illegally.

Sounds interesting, but hang on a minute, they also admit that it will be difficult to police and enforce - and that they are not sure what will happen to those who fail to pay the fine. The problem seems to be that people from these countries will be able to come to Britain under the EU free movement laws, so they can't be deported - maybe they'll qualify for benefits.... How that scenario plays against the proposal is difficult to work out at the moment. Some form of work permit scheme is intended, but how easy this will be to control is another issue. It doesn't seem to have worked well in other member states where this system is already employed.


The proposal is set against the information that the expected immigrants from formers Soviet states estimated as going to be 26,000 from 2004 to date, actually topped out at 627,000. Hmmmm.