Was Judas a villain?

Novae · 12-04-2006, 12:25 AM

If you have even the slightest knowledge of Christianity, you know that Judas betrayed Jesus and revealed to the Pharisees (I think that's what they were called), and thus caused his crucifixion.

Do you believe this act of betrayal was something to be villified, or something to be commended? After all, without Judas' treachery, there would be no crucifixion. Or there might have been, we'll never know.

I haven't posted here in a while, so I thought a new thread would be a good way to reenter.

Bullitt · 12-04-2006, 12:52 AM

My opinion on this needs a little explanation behind it, so bear with me here.

My belief is that every person that has walked this planet (exception: Jesus) has sin in his/her life. And that "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God", and that all human sins are just as offensive to God because He designed a world without any to begin with. Thus, we are all on the same level as Judas and he cannot be condemned above anyone else, you or me. God just used Judas' sin in a way that would bring about Christ's crucifixion and be the ultimate example of how we have all turned our backs on Jesus/God. I definitely would not say he is a villain.
Sucky position to be in to tell the truth, but that's just how God envisioned it to play out.

And in the words of my father: "But hey what do I know, I just sell soap" (works for Gojo Ind.)

Ibby · 12-04-2006, 01:14 AM

I'm not a christian and so his status is of no concern to me, but I'd probably say he's a hero, given that Jesus knew he would and even told him to, and that he was instrumental above all the others in letting Jesus die for our sins, like he was s'posed to. Not that I really believe he did, but thats another matter altogether...

12-04-2006, 01:30 AM

Made a bad-move... not a villain, not by a long-shot.

DanaC · 12-04-2006, 03:53 AM

Welcome back Novae!

I am not a Christian (as most will know :P) but I always found this a fascinating conundrum: on the one hand Judas supposedly betrayed his Lord and beloved friend, for the price of 30 silver.....on the other hand he was carrying out his part of the Divine plan. It comes down to to the argument between free will and determinism. If it was God's plan all along that he act in that way, could he really be said to be guilty? If he had free will and yet decided to betray his friend and Lord, then how can he be said to be innocent?

Toughie.

Elspode · 12-04-2006, 06:47 AM

Every good vs evil story needs a villain. Judas is just a poorly thought out plot complication in the Christian mythology.

9th Engineer · 12-04-2006, 07:36 AM

Quote:

There will always be sin in this imperfect world, but may there be mercy for the souls of those who commit it.

I'm not sure where, but I remember this line from somewhere...

Ibby · 12-04-2006, 07:43 AM

I'm not sure I agree, Elspode, I believe that the essentials, the bare-bones of the Jesus story are true, I believe he really did live, and had all those disciple dudes, and all that... and I believe he was a really, really cool, chill, rad, wise dude, but I don't think he was the son of god.

Sheldonrs · 12-04-2006, 09:04 AM

Judas just didn't have a good press agent. If he were alive today, the story would have gotten better spin in his favor.

BTW, speaking of Judas, has anyone else ever read the book "Virgin"? It's actually a great book and Judas plays a major part in it.

glatt · 12-04-2006, 09:34 AM

Well, if I remember my Bible stories, God had a history of messing with people and their free will. He hardened the Pharaoh's heart, causing the Pharaoh to persecute the Jews, and then God punished the Pharaoh for picking on the Jews. Not terribly fair.

Elspode · 12-04-2006, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibram

but I don't think he was the son of god.

We're all the sons and daughters of God...and Goddess.

footfootfoot · 12-04-2006, 11:50 AM

And if you have an extensive knowledge of Christianity you'll realize that this is a complex question when you consider the utter lack of veracity of the King James the pederast version of the bible.

Consider reading Bart Ehrman's "Misquoting Jesus" as a start.

xoxoxoBruce · 12-04-2006, 02:27 PM

Judas was neither hero or villain, just a piece of the intelligent design.

Spexxvet · 12-04-2006, 03:10 PM

Jesus did some things specifically to fulfill the Messianic prophecies. He purposely rode into Jerusalem on a donkey, as it was prophesied the Messiah would. I believe that Jesus planned the whole crucifixion thing, and Judas was a willing participant.

Shawnee123 · 12-04-2006, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

I believe that Jesus planned the whole crucifixion thing, and Judas was a willing participant.

So, kinda like "Wag the God"?

12-04-2006, 12:25 AM	#1
Novae Art may imitate life, but life imitates T.V. Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Seattle, Washington. Coffeetown. Posts: 27	Was Judas a villain? If you have even the slightest knowledge of Christianity, you know that Judas betrayed Jesus and revealed to the Pharisees (I think that's what they were called), and thus caused his crucifixion. Do you believe this act of betrayal was something to be villified, or something to be commended? After all, without Judas' treachery, there would be no crucifixion. Or there might have been, we'll never know. I haven't posted here in a while, so I thought a new thread would be a good way to reenter.

12-04-2006, 12:52 AM	#2
Bullitt This is a fully functional babe lair Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 2,324	My opinion on this needs a little explanation behind it, so bear with me here. My belief is that every person that has walked this planet (exception: Jesus) has sin in his/her life. And that "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God", and that all human sins are just as offensive to God because He designed a world without any to begin with. Thus, we are all on the same level as Judas and he cannot be condemned above anyone else, you or me. God just used Judas' sin in a way that would bring about Christ's crucifixion and be the ultimate example of how we have all turned our backs on Jesus/God. I definitely would not say he is a villain. Sucky position to be in to tell the truth, but that's just how God envisioned it to play out. And in the words of my father: "But hey what do I know, I just sell soap" (works for Gojo Ind.) __________________ Kiss my white Irish ass. Last edited by Bullitt; 12-04-2006 at 01:27 AM.

12-04-2006, 01:14 AM	#3
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	I'm not a christian and so his status is of no concern to me, but I'd probably say he's a hero, given that Jesus knew he would and even told him to, and that he was instrumental above all the others in letting Jesus die for our sins, like he was s'posed to. Not that I really believe he did, but thats another matter altogether... __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

12-04-2006, 06:47 AM	#6
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	Every good vs evil story needs a villain. Judas is just a poorly thought out plot complication in the Christian mythology. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

12-04-2006, 07:43 AM	#8
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	I'm not sure I agree, Elspode, I believe that the essentials, the bare-bones of the Jesus story are true, I believe he really did live, and had all those disciple dudes, and all that... and I believe he was a really, really cool, chill, rad, wise dude, but I don't think he was the son of god. __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

12-04-2006, 01:30 AM	#4
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Made a bad-move... not a villain, not by a long-shot.

12-04-2006, 03:53 AM	#5
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Welcome back Novae! I am not a Christian (as most will know :P) but I always found this a fascinating conundrum: on the one hand Judas supposedly betrayed his Lord and beloved friend, for the price of 30 silver.....on the other hand he was carrying out his part of the Divine plan. It comes down to to the argument between free will and determinism. If it was God's plan all along that he act in that way, could he really be said to be guilty? If he had free will and yet decided to betray his friend and Lord, then how can he be said to be innocent? Toughie.

12-04-2006, 09:04 AM	#9
Sheldonrs Master Dwellar Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 4,412	Judas just didn't have a good press agent. If he were alive today, the story would have gotten better spin in his favor. BTW, speaking of Judas, has anyone else ever read the book "Virgin"? It's actually a great book and Judas plays a major part in it. __________________ Laugh and the world laughs with you; cry and the world laughs AT you.

12-04-2006, 09:34 AM	#10
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	Well, if I remember my Bible stories, God had a history of messing with people and their free will. He hardened the Pharaoh's heart, causing the Pharaoh to persecute the Jews, and then God punished the Pharaoh for picking on the Jews. Not terribly fair.

12-04-2006, 11:50 AM	#12
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	And if you have an extensive knowledge of Christianity you'll realize that this is a complex question when you consider the utter lack of veracity of the King James the pederast version of the bible. Consider reading Bart Ehrman's "Misquoting Jesus" as a start. __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

12-04-2006, 02:27 PM	#13
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Judas was neither hero or villain, just a piece of the intelligent design. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

12-04-2006, 03:10 PM	#14
Spexxvet Makes some feel uncomfortable Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,346	Jesus did some things specifically to fulfill the Messianic prophecies. He purposely rode into Jerusalem on a donkey, as it was prophesied the Messiah would. I believe that Jesus planned the whole crucifixion thing, and Judas was a willing participant. __________________ "I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce

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