8/21/2003: Huge pig sacrificed - Page 7

elSicomoro · 09-01-2003, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
I've always been told that dogs (or any animal except us) pursues sex to pass his genes and insure the survival of his kind.

Humans too. It's just not the biggest reason anymore necessarily...at least in western culture, IMO.

xoxoxoBruce · 09-01-2003, 12:38 AM

Yeah but we can understand the whole concept as explained on PBS. We know that kids result and how to enhance or prevent the chances said same.
I don't think the critters do. I wonder if they even grasp that they are reproducing or that's a coincidence?

elSicomoro · 09-01-2003, 12:45 AM

As one of my teachers in high school once said: "They don't know what they're doing. And they don't know that they don't know what they're doing."

How true is that? *shrugs* I dunno...I'd say more true for some species than others.

elSicomoro · 09-01-2003, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
Yeah but we can understand the whole concept as explained on PBS.

Don't let the Christian Coalition find out.

xoxoxoBruce · 09-01-2003, 04:49 AM

I believe the Christian Coalition procreates too. After all they like to screw everyone else.

Undertoad · 09-01-2003, 08:24 AM

Hey, it wasn't so long ago in HUMAN history when we didn't make the connection between screwing and having kids. That was something we had to figure out.

juju · 09-01-2003, 10:17 AM

Proof?

xoxoxoBruce · 09-01-2003, 10:55 AM

Hmmm, I always knew it and according to Syc and Dave, I'm up there with the Bristlecone Pines.

Undertoad · 09-01-2003, 11:20 AM

Straight Dope entry on mankind figuring out sex=pregnancy

Quote:

The general run of humankind is thought to have tumbled to the concept early in the New Stone Age, which began after 10,000 BC. A couple things may have contributed to the discovery. First, what with the invention of agriculture, looking for food did not occupy every waking moment and people had some time to contemplate the mysteries of their environment.

Second, the domestication of animals gave folks a chance to see the cycle of boink/swelling belly/birth close up. It didn't take a prehistoric Stephen Hawking to figure out if you had only girl sheep, all you wound up with was a bunch of old maid sheep, but if you threw in one or more boy sheep, you soon had baby sheep popping out all over.

But of course it gets weirder:

Quote:

But some cultures--including, allegedly, Australian aborigines-- never got the picture. One writer says that as late as the 1960s "the Tully River Blacks of north Queensland believed that a woman got pregnant because she had been sitting over a fire on which she had roasted a fish given to her by the prospective father."

LUVBUGZ · 09-01-2003, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
Hey, I got a question. I've always been told that dogs (or any animal except us) pursues sex to pass his genes and insure the survival of his kind. OK, how do he know?
I'm having trouble believing that the dog ponders these concepts. More likely it's raging hormones and after the first time, pleasant memory.
THAT'S, better living through chemistry.

All animals have sex in order to pass on their genes and insure the survival of their species. They don't ponder this concept, it is simply "hard-wired" in their brains. This is true for humans as well, but humans have developed the additional use of sex as a means for self-gratification (pleasure).

juju · 09-01-2003, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LUVBUGZ
All animals have sex in order to pass on their genes and insure the survival of their species. They don't ponder this concept, it is simply "hard-wired" in their brains.

That makes no sense. What does it mean for it to be "hard wired" into their brain, if not that they ponder the concept? Unless you are saying that nature or evolution has a goal, which it most definitely does not.

Quote:

Originally posted by LUVBUGZ
This is true for humans as well, but humans have developed the additional use of sex as a means for self-gratification (pleasure).

Is there any evidence that animals do not also do this? What about bonobos?

juju · 09-01-2003, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
Straight Dope entry on mankind figuring out sex=pregnancy

Hmm.. interesting speculation. :)

I guess the point I wanted to make was that you can't know what pre-agricultural civilizations knew or didn't know about sex. There's just no record of it.

LUVBUGZ · 09-01-2003, 01:26 PM

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by LUVBUGZ
All animals have sex in order to pass on their genes and insure the survival of their species. They don't ponder this concept, it is simply "hard-wired" in their brains.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by juju
That makes no sense. What does it mean for it to be "hard wired" into their brain, if not that they ponder the concept? Unless you are saying that nature or evolution has a goal, which it most definitely does not.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Hard-wired" is a term almost every biology professor I've ever had used to describe "innate behavior". I would have to go through my biology texts to give you a more precise biological/physiological explaination. The way I understand the rules of Nature is that the basic purpose of a species is to reproduce (pass on its genes in order to insure the survival of the species). Evolution doesn't have a "goal", but rather is the process by which species (and their genes) are able to adapt and survive with everchanging environmental conditions. The ones that have what it takes are able to reproduce, thus passing on the very genes that allowed it to adapt and survive so that its offspring have a greater chance of surviving to continue passing down their genes and so on. This is Natural Selection, which you hear so much about and which is often used by people who don't really understand the concept. They just say "survival of the fittest" which is a correct statement, but many who use it don't know what it is actually describing.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by LUVBUGZ
This is true for humans as well, but humans have developed the additional use of sex as a means for self-gratification (pleasure).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by juju
Is there any evidence that animals do not also do this? What about bonobos?
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I seem to recall some mention of this in my mammology class, but once again I'd have to research it before commenting. I think I remember that some primates do display so called "human" behavior regarding sex as well as "human " emotions such as love, saddness, and jealousy to name a few. I just remember someting like this, but again whould have to do some research to give you hard evidence.

juju · 09-01-2003, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LUVBUGZ
"Hard-wired" is a term almost every biology professor I've ever had used to describe "innate behavior". I would have to go through my biology texts to give you a more precise biological/physiological explaination. The way I understand the rules of Nature is that the basic purpose of a species is to reproduce.

I think what you mean by "hard wired" is that when animals have intercourse, it gives them intense pleasure. Don't you think that this reward mechanism is a pretty strong incentive for doing it? If not, why has the pleasure reward even evolved? Surely a species that is hard wired to have sex for the purposes of propogating its DNA would need no pleasure incentive at all. They'd do it just for the reason you say they do it. <i>[edit: and of course, if what you say is true, then they wouldn't hump our legs.]</i>

Also, although I know exactly what you mean, I don't think that species or Nature have a "purpose". I realize it's just a poorly chosen word, though.

You also never responded to my questions from 8/26. How do you know that animals would agree with you that being "less likely to bite, fight with other dogs, wander, chase cars, bark excessively, display too much aggressiveness, and screw your leg" are bad things? And also, could you elaborate on how the world would be a better place if some human males were neutered?

xoxoxoBruce · 09-01-2003, 09:53 PM

Hardwired is the term Profs use for raging hormones.

The dog humping your leg has nothing to do with sex. It's a dominance issue.

09-01-2003, 12:38 AM	#92
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Yeah but we can understand the whole concept as explained on PBS. We know that kids result and how to enhance or prevent the chances said same. I don't think the critters do. I wonder if they even grasp that they are reproducing or that's a coincidence? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

09-01-2003, 04:49 AM	#95
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I believe the Christian Coalition procreates too. After all they like to screw everyone else. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

09-01-2003, 10:55 AM	#98
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Hmmm, I always knew it and according to Syc and Dave, I'm up there with the Bristlecone Pines. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

09-01-2003, 01:26 PM	#103
LUVBUGZ Not aging gracefully. Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 530	quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by LUVBUGZ All animals have sex in order to pass on their genes and insure the survival of their species. They don't ponder this concept, it is simply "hard-wired" in their brains. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by juju That makes no sense. What does it mean for it to be "hard wired" into their brain, if not that they ponder the concept? Unless you are saying that nature or evolution has a goal, which it most definitely does not. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Hard-wired" is a term almost every biology professor I've ever had used to describe "innate behavior". I would have to go through my biology texts to give you a more precise biological/physiological explaination. The way I understand the rules of Nature is that the basic purpose of a species is to reproduce (pass on its genes in order to insure the survival of the species). Evolution doesn't have a "goal", but rather is the process by which species (and their genes) are able to adapt and survive with everchanging environmental conditions. The ones that have what it takes are able to reproduce, thus passing on the very genes that allowed it to adapt and survive so that its offspring have a greater chance of surviving to continue passing down their genes and so on. This is Natural Selection, which you hear so much about and which is often used by people who don't really understand the concept. They just say "survival of the fittest" which is a correct statement, but many who use it don't know what it is actually describing. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by LUVBUGZ This is true for humans as well, but humans have developed the additional use of sex as a means for self-gratification (pleasure). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by juju Is there any evidence that animals do not also do this? What about bonobos? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I seem to recall some mention of this in my mammology class, but once again I'd have to research it before commenting. I think I remember that some primates do display so called "human" behavior regarding sex as well as "human " emotions such as love, saddness, and jealousy to name a few. I just remember someting like this, but again whould have to do some research to give you hard evidence. __________________ You can't catch me...don't even try...go do something else...see ya next year. Mama Loves You Baby Girl ~ May You Rest In Peace

09-01-2003, 09:53 PM	#105
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Hardwired is the term Profs use for raging hormones. The dog humping your leg has nothing to do with sex. It's a dominance issue. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

09-01-2003, 12:45 AM	#93
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	As one of my teachers in high school once said: "They don't know what they're doing. And they don't know that they don't know what they're doing." How true is that? shrugs I dunno...I'd say more true for some species than others.

09-01-2003, 08:24 AM	#96
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Hey, it wasn't so long ago in HUMAN history when we didn't make the connection between screwing and having kids. That was something we had to figure out.

09-01-2003, 10:17 AM	#97
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Proof?

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