Faith... to what/whom?

[Tomas Rueda]

<Pomp and Circumstance playing in background> During the last few days, fellow celarites have unearthed the question that has solidly endured since time inmemmorial: Does a deity exist, and can you prove it?

<music streaks out, like in a record>...enough with the big words. let's get to businness.

I believe that God does exist. < that right there, my friends, is a PERIOD. get it? P-E-R-I-O-D.

You want proof? here is the proof! the earth, sky, sea, the animals, plants, every living organism, humans,... the universe as a whole.

How else can you explain the almost natural shape in the stars of Orion, of Leo, of the Ursa major with the big dipper? they look almost realistic, right? Check an astronomy atlas if in doubt.

How else can you explain that every single particle in this universe is composed of 92 natural elements?

How else can you explain that living matter exist? show me at least one person who has created a life-form or an organism out from scratch, and I'll show you God who has created a countless number of Living organisms created from the nothingness of the void.

how else can you explain our own selves? Masters of the Earth ruling over all other organisms. we have subdued and erradicated polio. we have conquered over infectious diseases. We have increased in knowledge from working with stones and sticks being naked in the field surrounded with ferocious animals, to become people who work with computers, cars, modern technoloy; dressed in clothes and having the wild animals in the zoo.

how else can you explain the perfect turn of the Earth aroud the Sun and about itself?you think is not important right? wrong! if the Earth were to stop, the lit side would rise to tempertatures up to 145*F whilst the dark side becomes as cold as the Antartica. So tell me, has any one ever applied any single significant amount of energy to the Earth so that it may keep on spinning?

How else can you explain the continuous growth of the Christian Chruch? compared to other religions, it is one of the few religions that have survived more than 2000 years. yet is the only religion that cares for the worshiper. Ex. a man is stuck in an old well and he is drowning. along comes Confucius and says, "you should have listened and obeyed my teaching, but now... good riddance" and he goes away, next comes Siddartha Gautama (Buddha) and says, " well, you are not enlightened, so I can't help you.

you are still strugling to get out, shout, paddle,...in short, you try every thing to get out. you try drugs in your pocket, but they only add to the problem. you try sex, but it doesn't work. you pull out you wallet and check that you have enough money. so you sign a $10,000 check and start shouting to someone to pull you out. so here comes your boss, and says that he will pull you out if you give the check in the pail that you are grabbing to. so you do it, but he starts to run away with the check and leaves the pail in the surface.

minutes later you are getting ready to die, because the walls are slippery, the well is so wide, you can't get out by yourself, and it's extremely deep. you were told that the well is 125 ft deep.

here then comes Jesus and throws a rope with a metal bar securely tied to it and shouts. "Grab on, I'll get you out!"

so the question is: Do you grab the rope or not?

...

[Troubleshooter]

You left the right answer off of the list of choices.

"Can't prove if he does or doesn't exist."

[glatt]

Believing in God is an act of faith. There is no proof of God.

If you believe in God, you tend to see signs of Him in the things around you. If you don't believe, you don't see those signs.

It's not logical. Don't try to make it logical.

[smoothmoniker]

must ... resist ... urge ....


.... too ... much ... real .... work .... to do


must ... not ... post .... 90 pages ..... dissertation ..... on religious ..... philosophy.





-sm

[Troubleshooter]

Originally posted by glatt
Believing in God is an act of faith. There is no proof of God.

If you believe in God, you tend to see signs of Him in the things around you. If you don't believe, you don't see those signs.

It's not logical. Don't try to make it logical.

So is he asking for an assertion of faith or an attempt at an empirical proof?

[limey]

Originally posted by Tomas Rueda
[snip] I believe that God does exist. < that right there, my friends, is a PERIOD. get it? P-E-R-I-O-D.[snip]
...

So we have to stop right there, at the "PERIOD. get it?", and you, TR can go right on and argue your case?
No no no no, no fair. Of course, you can believe what you will, Tomas, but why should I read your post? (I didn't). I, too, can believe what I will.

[smug]And I won't even ask you to read about it.[/smug]

Edited to make the SMUG stand out a bit more!

[OnyxCougar]

Assertation of faith.

[Lady Sidhe]

Originally posted by smoothmoniker
must ... resist ... urge ....


.... too ... much ... real .... work .... to do


must ... not ... post .... 90 pages ..... dissertation ..... on religious ..... philosophy.





-sm

You know you wanna....Do it! DO IT!

Besides, I love reading your posts. You have a great way of expressing your ideas.


Sidhe

[Troubleshooter]

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
Assertation of faith.

Faith requires no proof and asserts against contradictory evidence (without proof).

So what is the point?

[Tomas Rueda]

the Problem is that some people, don't have faith at all. that they want proof.

of course faith is required. I mean, the rope that JC threw is not logical, and it shouldn't be. because the order ot this realm is not the same order in eternal places like Hevaen or Hell.

[jaguar]

While I'm sure others can do a better job and I'm simply not patient enough to do it throughly:

So tell me, has any one ever applied any single significant amount of energy to the Earth so that it may keep on spinning?

Gravity of the sun?

how else can you explain the perfect turn of the Earth aroud the Sun and about itself?you think is not important right? wrong! if the Earth were to stop, the lit side would rise to tempertatures up to 145*F whilst the dark side becomes as cold as the Antartica. So tell me, has any one ever applied any single significant amount of energy to the Earth so that it may keep on spinning?

How many galaxies, how many solar systems how many planets....

How else can you explain the almost natural shape in the stars of Orion, of Leo, of the Ursa major with the big dipper? they look almost realistic, right? Check an astronomy atlas if in doubt.

See above.

and I really want to know what you're doing down a well with a hooker, a checkbook, a pen and a line of cocaine. Secondly, like most other diseases the church is in recession in the developed world and growing in the 3rd world.

Argh, I can't be bothered, someone do this properly, it doesn't look like a real challange.

[Troubleshooter]

Originally posted by Tomas Rueda
the Problem is that some people, don't have faith at all. that they want proof.

of course faith is required. I mean, the rope that JC threw is not logical, and it shouldn't be. because the order ot this realm is not the same order in eternal places like Hevaen or Hell.

Ah, well, there you go.

[jaguar]

The only good thing about this thread is about can vote that god does and doesn't exist. I like that kind of pluralism in thought.

Tomas, if you are going to bring other spiritual beliefs into your little story, you need to at least understand what you are talking about. Buddhism has been around longer than Christianity, by the way. If the Buddha happened to be strolling past your person stuck in the well, he would simply pull the person out, no questions asked; and go on his way. He would not demand that this person become enlightened either before or afterward.

You cannot give empirical scientific proof of the existance of God. The examples you site are proof of the laws of physics and evolutionary science. Your statement that man is the apex of creation is parochial, at best. Man is busily destroying whatever God may have created here on earth.

Either you believe in God or you don't. This is why its called "faith" in God.

[Beestie]

God doesn't want to be proven. How else can he discern the faithful?