Schwarzenegger

Undertoad · 08-08-2003, 09:02 AM

He'll win.

"Let me ask you about his, his baggage, if you will. He's admitted smoking marijuana, using steroids during his body-building career. He's the son of a Nazi Party member. He said he was prejudiced before overcoming those feelings by working with the Simon Weisenthal Center in Los Angeles and the Dean of the Center said an investigation of Schwarzenegger's late father, conducted at the actor's request, found no evidence of war crimes. Through his publicist he's denied allegations published in Premiere magazine in March 2001, that he sexually harassed women and committed infidelity. All those things, are they gonna be front and center, Darry, if you, do you think in this campaign?" -- Katie Couric, 8/7/2003

Jesus, think of all the news she could have reported instead of asking that "question". The thing she misses, along with the rest of the stupid sucking media, is that this sort of thing sticks like glue to politicians, because we are desperately seeking reasons NOT to trust them. It never sticks to celebrities, because we treat them exactly the opposite way: we are desperately seeking reasons to trust them.

I don't know why it is that way, but it just is.

Watching Arnie yesterday, he imparts a degree of trust that no politician has ever EVER matched. In his announcement press conference he was asked about environmental concerns, his answer:

"I've always been environment-friendly and I will fight for the environment. Nothing to worry about that."

His political enemies will seek to make hay out of that. But unlike practically every other politician who's made a statement like that, Arnie is different. No politician could just say "Nothing to worry" and expect two-thirds of the audience to respond by not worrying.

I watched Dianne Feinstein doing her best to slyly discredit Arnie. But the language that she uses doesn't work on real people. Like most pols, it's all big words, a furrowed brow, a schoolmarmish attitude: all this stuff is important, it's all best left to us in the ivory tower. Compared to Arnie, her stuff sounded like "blah blah blah blah."

Arnie has found exactly the right notes to start with, too: his initial message was absolutely appealing, a form of semi-liberal populism. It's not identifiable as populism because we are used to populism coming from conservatism. His main message: "I want to make government work so we can afford these important programs." True-blue conservatives, underwhelmed because Arnie isn't running like the Republican he is, rushed hurriedly to their microphones to tell the world Arnie is not one of them... thus making him even more palatable to Californians.

I will be amazed if he doesn't pull this off.

08-08-2003, 09:33 AM

Paul and I were talking about it a few weeks ago, and we both agree: Arnold would be the mack daddy governor.

Plus, think of all the great headlines.

"Gray Davis, You are TERMINATED!"

Oh boy. I wish I lived in CA so I could vote for him. Hopefully Paul and Jen will.

xoxoxoBruce · 08-08-2003, 03:32 PM

I can't help but think of the hope that Jesse Ventura brought to the voters only to have it dashed by the political machines. They showed the voters who's boss.

warch · 08-08-2003, 06:47 PM

Ventura made his mark on election day, winning the largest 3rd of votes (the majority of total voters did not support him) and shocking the system. It was the days,years after that, when he had to actually work, that were a bit rough. Looked to me like he done dashed hisself. He wasnt prepared/skilled to actually govern. One gets the impression that he was never so happy for a gig to be over with as it interferred with his media career. He would not have won reelection. The voters would have dashed him.

But I agree that, like his Predator costar, Arnold will win. An Maria an da kids will be happy an haff a nice pahdy.

Skunks · 08-08-2003, 06:56 PM

Personally, I'm rooting for the sumo wrestler.

elSicomoro · 08-08-2003, 07:00 PM

On the surface, I find the recall moronic. If you didn't like Gray Davis, why the fuck did you re-elect him only 9 months ago? Shit's been bad in Cali for what? Over 2 years now?

Having said that, I think Arnold has a decent chance. Hopefully he has learned from the problems that Jesse Ventura encountered: both intentional and unintentional.

warch · 08-08-2003, 07:05 PM

It seems to me that Arnold is a tad smarter and better able to work well with others.

Undertoad · 08-09-2003, 08:33 AM

They say Ventura didn't know who to pick fights with so he picked fights with everybody -- would you say that would be right about the Ventura years, warch?

Tasneem Project · 08-10-2003, 12:38 PM

Today I received a spam mail selling T-shirts promoting Arnie's political campaign - "Hasta la vista, Davis". Nuff said!

Undertoad · 08-10-2003, 12:45 PM

The first poll is out and shows that 54% of Californians would vote to recall (thus kicking out Davis), and of the eight candidates they were offered (the front-runners), Arnie won with 25%. Bustamente was the only other candidate in double-digits, with 15%.

xoxoxoBruce · 08-10-2003, 12:52 PM

Quote:

If you didn't like Gray Davis, why the fuck did you re-elect him only 9 months ago?

Maybe 9 months ago the voters that cared at all felt disenfranchised by the process and choices. Now they have a direct involvement in the process. Of course once the election is over and the dust clears, it's back to business as usual for the parties.

elSicomoro · 08-10-2003, 01:22 PM

I'm not buying it, Bruce. They had a chance to make themselves felt two years ago, in the time leading up to the primaries.

Like the Rush song, "if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."

As I see it, Daniel Issa saw the low ratings for Davis, knew the law, then thought he could buy the governor's mansion by spending almost $2 million of his own cash on a recall campaign. Of course folks would sign the recall petition...and it's not like it took that many signatures. Issa's dream of course crumbled when Arnie stepped in.

And Arnold has nice sound bites. He comes across as a real compassionate conservative--or a straight up moderate, depending on how you look at it. But he's got two months to figure out just what it is he wants to do. And saying shit like "I'm gonna clean up Sacramento" and "I can't be bought by special interests" (I'm paraphrasing here) is laughable. It sounds beautiful, but realistically? Please...

I know, I know...that shit is S.O.P. Many politicians do it, some really believe it, some just say it for votes. I do think Arnold wants to make California better...just as I believe Ventura wanted to do the same in Minnesota. But any changes will probably be minor and insignificant at best, IMO.

xoxoxoBruce · 08-10-2003, 01:41 PM

Quote:

They had a chance to make themselves felt two years ago, in the time leading up to the primaries.

The only chance anyone had was to join and act within the party machine. Otherwise you're just pissing in the wind. This is a chance to have direct input with just one trip to the polls. Sweeeet. Of course like you said it really won't make much difference, but they don't know that. Most of them probably don't really know what Grey Davis has or hasn't done. It's just a chance to express displeasure with the status quo.

warch · 08-11-2003, 09:57 AM

Quote:

They say Ventura didn't know who to pick fights with so he picked fights with everybody -- would you say that would be right about the Ventura years, warch?

Yep. Jesse is not an adult. Constantly "threatened", contantly puffing himself up for a fight. It was all about Jesse and not about the State of Minnesota. There was no faction in or out of government that didnt "attack" Jesse, in his view. The liberals, the religious right (and left for that matter), the press "media jackals", Greens, other independents, accountants, academics, hunters, little old ladies...all got in his kitchen, everyone was a threat that dared to challenge or debate. And his response was always to tantrum and "get even". The one thing he knows is wrestling.

So, Everything was personal. There was no negotiation. No diplomacy. No higher road. Past the photo op, he was in over his head and his tactic was to get his hackles up and remind everyone that he was a Navy Seal. His major contributions were a series of taxpayer funded book tours, TV spots, Football comentary gigs (the cost of his traveling security was unprecedented), needlessly grinding the state workers and departments into layoffs and strikes- (that got resolved quickly when the parks and forests of northern MN were shut down over the 4th of July- this pissed off the rural constitutants), and closing the Governor's Mansion- his teenage son had been living there alone and having notorious parties, footed by taxpayers, damaging historic art and furniture. the only things I can recall as positive, was his support for light rail transit and his prochoice stance.

In the end, he didnt bring the refreshing change some had hoped, and his entertainment value had dropped, along with the XFL. His rants grew tiresome.

headsplice · 08-11-2003, 11:50 AM

I concur with Warch, Jesse had only a couple of good impacts (I'm not going to include light rail, but that's between me and Warch). One of them was to mobilize a huge number of college students that hadn't previously voted that continue to vote in local elections. Other than that, yeah, he's basically a big prick. He always gave the impression that the political fights were personal ones and that the whole world didn't like him.
Actually, that would be an interesting political matchup: Arnie vs. Jesse. It would be sort of like 'The Running Man,' except with much better acting and an immeasurably better storyline.
A quick question for Cali residents: I heard that part of the big budget crunch is at least partially the result of a big spending referendum that the voters okay'ed not too long ago. Is this true? Or is the real problem the fact that Sacramento was hedging its spending based on projected corporate IT revenues that evaporated over the past couple of years.
Does anyone have any idea?

08-08-2003, 09:02 AM	#1
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Schwarzenegger He'll win. "Let me ask you about his, his baggage, if you will. He's admitted smoking marijuana, using steroids during his body-building career. He's the son of a Nazi Party member. He said he was prejudiced before overcoming those feelings by working with the Simon Weisenthal Center in Los Angeles and the Dean of the Center said an investigation of Schwarzenegger's late father, conducted at the actor's request, found no evidence of war crimes. Through his publicist he's denied allegations published in Premiere magazine in March 2001, that he sexually harassed women and committed infidelity. All those things, are they gonna be front and center, Darry, if you, do you think in this campaign?" -- Katie Couric, 8/7/2003 Jesus, think of all the news she could have reported instead of asking that "question". The thing she misses, along with the rest of the stupid sucking media, is that this sort of thing sticks like glue to politicians, because we are desperately seeking reasons NOT to trust them. It never sticks to celebrities, because we treat them exactly the opposite way: we are desperately seeking reasons to trust them. I don't know why it is that way, but it just is. Watching Arnie yesterday, he imparts a degree of trust that no politician has ever EVER matched. In his announcement press conference he was asked about environmental concerns, his answer: "I've always been environment-friendly and I will fight for the environment. Nothing to worry about that." His political enemies will seek to make hay out of that. But unlike practically every other politician who's made a statement like that, Arnie is different. No politician could just say "Nothing to worry" and expect two-thirds of the audience to respond by not worrying. I watched Dianne Feinstein doing her best to slyly discredit Arnie. But the language that she uses doesn't work on real people. Like most pols, it's all big words, a furrowed brow, a schoolmarmish attitude: all this stuff is important, it's all best left to us in the ivory tower. Compared to Arnie, her stuff sounded like "blah blah blah blah." Arnie has found exactly the right notes to start with, too: his initial message was absolutely appealing, a form of semi-liberal populism. It's not identifiable as populism because we are used to populism coming from conservatism. His main message: "I want to make government work so we can afford these important programs." True-blue conservatives, underwhelmed because Arnie isn't running like the Republican he is, rushed hurriedly to their microphones to tell the world Arnie is not one of them... thus making him even more palatable to Californians. I will be amazed if he doesn't pull this off.

08-08-2003, 03:32 PM	#3
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I can't help but think of the hope that Jesse Ventura brought to the voters only to have it dashed by the political machines. They showed the voters who's boss. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

08-10-2003, 12:38 PM	#9
Tasneem Project Writer of Writings Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: uk Posts: 14	Today I received a spam mail selling T-shirts promoting Arnie's political campaign - "Hasta la vista, Davis". Nuff said! __________________ http://www.geocities.com/yakoub0001/index.html

08-11-2003, 11:50 AM	#15
headsplice Relaxed Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 676	"The Mind" I concur with Warch, Jesse had only a couple of good impacts (I'm not going to include light rail, but that's between me and Warch). One of them was to mobilize a huge number of college students that hadn't previously voted that continue to vote in local elections. Other than that, yeah, he's basically a big prick. He always gave the impression that the political fights were personal ones and that the whole world didn't like him. Actually, that would be an interesting political matchup: Arnie vs. Jesse. It would be sort of like 'The Running Man,' except with much better acting and an immeasurably better storyline. A quick question for Cali residents: I heard that part of the big budget crunch is at least partially the result of a big spending referendum that the voters okay'ed not too long ago. Is this true? Or is the real problem the fact that Sacramento was hedging its spending based on projected corporate IT revenues that evaporated over the past couple of years. Does anyone have any idea? __________________ Don't Panic

08-08-2003, 09:33 AM	#2
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Paul and I were talking about it a few weeks ago, and we both agree: Arnold would be the mack daddy governor. Plus, think of all the great headlines. "Gray Davis, You are TERMINATED!" Oh boy. I wish I lived in CA so I could vote for him. Hopefully Paul and Jen will.

08-08-2003, 06:47 PM	#4
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	Ventura made his mark on election day, winning the largest 3rd of votes (the majority of total voters did not support him) and shocking the system. It was the days,years after that, when he had to actually work, that were a bit rough. Looked to me like he done dashed hisself. He wasnt prepared/skilled to actually govern. One gets the impression that he was never so happy for a gig to be over with as it interferred with his media career. He would not have won reelection. The voters would have dashed him. But I agree that, like his Predator costar, Arnold will win. An Maria an da kids will be happy an haff a nice pahdy.

08-08-2003, 06:56 PM	#5
Skunks I thought I changed this. Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: western nowhere, ny Posts: 412	Personally, I'm rooting for the sumo wrestler.

08-08-2003, 07:00 PM	#6
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	On the surface, I find the recall moronic. If you didn't like Gray Davis, why the fuck did you re-elect him only 9 months ago? Shit's been bad in Cali for what? Over 2 years now? Having said that, I think Arnold has a decent chance. Hopefully he has learned from the problems that Jesse Ventura encountered: both intentional and unintentional.

08-08-2003, 07:05 PM	#7
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	It seems to me that Arnold is a tad smarter and better able to work well with others.

08-09-2003, 08:33 AM	#8
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	They say Ventura didn't know who to pick fights with so he picked fights with everybody -- would you say that would be right about the Ventura years, warch?

08-10-2003, 12:45 PM	#10
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	The first poll is out and shows that 54% of Californians would vote to recall (thus kicking out Davis), and of the eight candidates they were offered (the front-runners), Arnie won with 25%. Bustamente was the only other candidate in double-digits, with 15%.

08-10-2003, 01:22 PM	#12
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	I'm not buying it, Bruce. They had a chance to make themselves felt two years ago, in the time leading up to the primaries. Like the Rush song, "if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." As I see it, Daniel Issa saw the low ratings for Davis, knew the law, then thought he could buy the governor's mansion by spending almost $2 million of his own cash on a recall campaign. Of course folks would sign the recall petition...and it's not like it took that many signatures. Issa's dream of course crumbled when Arnie stepped in. And Arnold has nice sound bites. He comes across as a real compassionate conservative--or a straight up moderate, depending on how you look at it. But he's got two months to figure out just what it is he wants to do. And saying shit like "I'm gonna clean up Sacramento" and "I can't be bought by special interests" (I'm paraphrasing here) is laughable. It sounds beautiful, but realistically? Please... I know, I know...that shit is S.O.P. Many politicians do it, some really believe it, some just say it for votes. I do think Arnold wants to make California better...just as I believe Ventura wanted to do the same in Minnesota. But any changes will probably be minor and insignificant at best, IMO.

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