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12-12-2010, 06:37 PM | #1 |
Franklin Pierce
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I did not find anything real surprising from wikileaks.
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12-12-2010, 06:56 PM | #2 |
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neither did i... most Americans that looked found out a lot.
Those who haven't truly looked are either well clouded by the media influence around the topic, or they're too afraid to look, as they face a demolishing of their core beliefs in their nation. Most American's are happy to be proud.
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12-12-2010, 11:14 PM | #3 | |
Franklin Pierce
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Quote:
Also, if you think that wikileaks has exposed a demolishing of core values I am very curious of what you consider American core values.
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12-13-2010, 12:06 AM | #4 | |
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Re: the part i did quote, try freedom for one. For an American to have a glimpse of freedom, he's gotta compare it to a third world countries. America is full of bars, re: information, speech, expression, demonstration, even in race, religion. Not comparing the USA to a third world country, what freedom is it exactly that Americans feel they have? (I could insert hundreds of youtube clips to demonstrate the lack of freedom in the USA, but hopefully you've seen at least some of them to get my point) Americans believe they have the freedom to chose who runs the country, and yet, regardless of which puppet takes over, its the same people/families/companies that call the shots. Generally, Americans have this core belief that the USA is the good guy in their foreign affairs, when it is pretty clear that its quite the opposite. An American, even today, maintains the belief that his/her country, is rich, when the numbers don't actually agree. An American today, believes that his/her country has some kind of power hold in the world, when in fact, the nation's future can be described in realistic terms, as a pan-handler amongst the worlds nations. These realities the USA now faces, were pointed out by America's own forefathers who saw this day coming, and warned future Americans of the results we now see unfolding.(Check George Washington, Thomas Jefferson) Do not mistaken my comments as a generalization of Americans, rather the majority. I'm well aware that there are several Americans who are aware of the facts, but hold no power to lift the people up to overturn the path, due to the fact that America has failed to up-hold the base of the second amendment..... the original purpose of the amendment has been lost into impossibility. The foundations of the country were solid, and yet, they have not been held in tact. Wikileaks has provided just the tip of the truth. I advise to look beyond commentary on the subject, and focus on the hard evidence that's to come.
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12-13-2010, 08:09 PM | #5 | |
Franklin Pierce
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From what all I've gathered from wikileaks, no mainstream tv stations or newspapers btw, tells me that our foreign policy tactics have either not changed or even have gotten better (in an ethical sense) since the cold war. If you have "hard facts" to show me otherwise, I am more than willing to see. Also, please don't show just one or two instances of something happening and then try to generalize all of US foreign policy from it...
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12-12-2010, 07:22 PM | #6 |
“Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo”
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Why would you support people who obtained stolen classified material from our country? Assange is an accessory to a crime and should be treated as such. Wikileaks is not a news organization and should not be afforded any such protections. I am quite happy to see him in jail, regardless of whether or not wikileaks continues to release stolen classified information. And I would fully support the arrest and detention of any person or persons who pass on such information to the general public.
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12-12-2010, 08:03 PM | #7 | |
Read? I only know how to write.
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Wikileaks and the White House press corp both suppress information that might cause damage to national security or harm human life. Why do you conventiently forget those who intentionally outted Valerie Plame only for a political agenda? That was far worse than what Wikileaks is doing. Why the double standard? |
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12-14-2010, 02:10 AM | #8 | |
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Nor was there really any "only a political agenda" about it. Consulate staffer Wilson was no one's idea of a professional intelligence gatherer, and indeed he had never done anything of the kind in the logistical and embassy-admin work he had done up until then. The whole of his endeavor, beginning to end, was to make some appointments with some officials in Niger -- who told Wilson exactly what they wanted Wilson to hear about yellowcake and yellowcake inquiries. Plame pulled some strings to get her husband Wilson to be the one to take the trip. No, tw, your anti-Republican prejudices continue to blacken your soul, dim your mind, and screw your writing. If you were any worse, you'd torture puppies -- in the womb, you horrid stumblefuck and sexual undesirable.
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12-13-2010, 11:43 AM | #9 | |
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12-13-2010, 12:27 PM | #10 | |
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I don't think in this case, it's because brainwashing is so effective. I think its because people want to eat what the media is feeding them. If people turned off their tv and did not read the newspaper, and just looked at the hard facts, they would not even be considering these things.
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12-13-2010, 01:06 PM | #11 | |||
~~Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.~~
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What are the hard facts? Quote:
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I wish we could live in a Utopian world too, but history proves this will never be the case. Last edited by skysidhe; 12-13-2010 at 01:31 PM. |
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12-12-2010, 09:11 PM | #12 |
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I'm not seeing this as cut and dried as Merc. One the one hand I have "my feelings" about it, and on the other: a black hole where something quantifiable should be, but isn't.
In the times we live in, the idea of monolithic news sources has evaporated. For the same reason that we don't buy sets of encyclopedias anymore--the monopoly on information has been cracked! WE ALL HAVE THE INFORMATION NOW. This is a condition that we regularly CELEBRATE, when we pause to consider how miraculous it is. And now, what we have here is somebody taking information and, according to "my feelings" using it irresponsibly. I "feel" that one man has put himself forth as a kind of superpower, in a way that "feels" wrong--like the world shouldn't be that easy to throw off balance. I'm uncomfortable with an individual citizen having this much power--although if I were to "feel" differently about what he is doing, I would be CELEBRATING the power of the individual! . . . See the problem? This should be more quantifiable than whether we "feel" the individual is right or wrong, in his...motivations. Is doing something for a bad reason enough to make it wrong to do, if, done for different reasons, it would have been okay? Is doing something for a good reason enough to make it right to do, if, done for different reasons, it wouldn't have been okay? It's a jumble of contradictory ideas that will not be so easy to sort out. Society will be FORCED to deal with this.
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12-12-2010, 09:57 PM | #13 |
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Flint, nice discourse... is a puzzlement
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12-12-2010, 11:59 PM | #14 |
trying hard to be a better person
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Maybe Mr Assange is the anti-christ and this is the begining of the end of days!
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12-13-2010, 09:50 AM | #15 |
~~Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.~~
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Please do not confuse freedom of speech with dissemination of information.
EVERY country as their procedure for dissemination. Would any country like another country to disseminate theirs? Americans are not demoralized. The government may be embarrassed but not broken. What this government does in secret, you can bet other governments do too. I suppose I am not understanding your angle. Should we crack open ALL government documents from every country? If it is good for us, it should be good for every country right? Should someone hack your computer and put it all out there on the web? There is a certain sense of, this is MINE, not yours to just pass around. Don't YOU want to decide who you share information with? I do. |
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