Nov 19, 2009: LRAD - Page 2

Cloud · 11-19-2009, 05:52 PM

fantastic if you want to kill a Sentinel. Why aren't the Guides up in arms about this?

see me if you have any idea what I'm talking about here!

spudcon · 11-19-2009, 05:58 PM

What are you talking about? I can't see you.

Cloud · 11-19-2009, 05:59 PM

it's just as well, really!

hipshot · 11-19-2009, 07:39 PM

Didn't "Elrad" used to open for Zeppelin?

TheDaVinciChode · 11-19-2009, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dar512

I'm sure you're right, Bruce. But I bet it would be fun to go Q-shipping through that area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Q-ships. Oh yes.

Just make sure they're British Q-Boats.

American Q-Boats are highly ineffective and unsuccessful, it seems... each boat failing in her designated mission... and the only war-time fire, being friendly in nature.

But... Americans have always enjoyed friendly-fire, I suppose.

*Waits for the Americans to get up-in-arms, to defend their inadequately-trained military.*

Before you do, however, take into consideration how many "friendly fire incidents" there have been, from WWI - Present, or even sooner, if you can be bothered with the research... Don't just observe American military records, but others, too... Compare all data, from as many countries as you care to research, and tell me which country has had the most "friendly fire incidents," over all. Include, if you wish, civilian casualties/mortalities/"collateral damage," for a better picture, too.

I'd certainly not want to be on the right side of America, during a war. You're safer against them!*

(* Especially if you take into account civilian casualties/mortalities, too.)

TheMercenary · 11-19-2009, 08:26 PM

What a maroon..

ZenGum · 11-19-2009, 10:14 PM

I'm with DaVinci - most of the way. The US military has a pretty bad reputation for friendly fire incidents. BUT ... given a choice of Australia Vs [Insert powerful foreign nation of your choice] either with or without US involvement, we put up with the firendly fire because, overall, it is worth it.

Looks bad in the papers, though.

Adak · 11-20-2009, 03:20 AM

The BBC news reported that the sonic device didn't stop the pirates in their (second!) attack on the Maersk Alabama. Ineffective, but they aren't sure why.

The shipping line had taken the precaution of hiring some security troops to repel pirate attacks. They worked.

spudcon · 11-20-2009, 06:39 AM

And they were very friendly while firing on the pirates.

newtimer · 11-20-2009, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

The "area" is thousands of square miles...

The legitimate ships are following their course, not wandering blindly. A sub would hang out near that shipping lane and just wait for the pirates to come to them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

...trying to hit those speedboats with a torpedo would be like trying to shoot fruit flies...

...shooting loud fruit flies with a rifle that aims for the sound.

1) Speed is relative. And relative to a torpedo, a speedboat is granny limping upstairs with her cane, hoping to catch the end of Lawrence Welk Show before going to bed at 8:00.
2) Speedboats aren't made to be stealthy while they're buzzing along the surface. But subs are made to detect folks who are trying to be stealthy. Not much challenge.

There are two kinds of boats in the oceans: submarines and targets.

glatt · 11-20-2009, 09:49 AM

there is no shipping lane there.

Ships used to stay close to shore to keep the trip short as they went around Africa. Then the pirates came, so they moved out further into the ocean. The pirates followed, now the ships are scattered hundreds of miles off shore with the pirates sniffing around for them. Bruce is right that it's a HUGE area.

monster · 11-20-2009, 11:14 PM

Americans > friendly fire rep

=

British > bad teeth rep

Elspode · 11-21-2009, 12:17 AM

Why the shipping companies don't just put some heavy hardware on their vessels and blow these bastards out of the water is puzzling to me. I guess it has something to do with bringing armed vessels into ports being a no no under international law.

This piracy is going to continue as long as ransoms are being paid out and the risks are relatively low, which continues to be the case. If 80% of the piracy events ended in the deaths of the pirates, instead of in success, it would probably become much more rare.

ZenGum · 11-21-2009, 12:34 AM

What is really needed is an effective government in Somalia. Anyone up for a re-invasion? 3rd front?

Adak · 11-21-2009, 02:07 AM

I doubt if you could make Somalia "right" with an invasion.

Millions of people, armed to the teeth, stubbornly supporting different brands of Islam - they can't even agree on what kind of Islamic law they want.

Getting them to agree to the kind of reforms that would be necessary to get Somalia back up on it's feet with a working government, is just not going to happen in that kind of absolutist atmosphere.

Best thing is just to leave them alone to sort it out. It's an exercise in futility to try and cram good government down people's throats, if they don't want to support it.

Eventually, they'll see "this ain't working, we need to make some compromises and quit fighting amongst ourselves, for the good of the country". Or they won't.

Toughening up the international laws on piracy and putting some security personnel on board, with the weapons they'll need, might have to do, in the meantime.

11-19-2009, 05:52 PM	#16
Cloud ... Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,360	fantastic if you want to kill a Sentinel. Why aren't the Guides up in arms about this? see me if you have any idea what I'm talking about here! __________________ "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!"

11-19-2009, 05:58 PM	#17
spudcon Beware of potatoes Join Date: May 2007 Location: Upstate NY, USA Posts: 2,078	What are you talking about? I can't see you. __________________ "I believe that being despised by the despicable is as good as being admired by the admirable."

11-19-2009, 05:59 PM	#18
Cloud ... Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,360	it's just as well, really! __________________ "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!"

11-19-2009, 07:39 PM	#19
hipshot Enlarged to show texture Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 80	Didn't "Elrad" used to open for Zeppelin? __________________ "When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather. Not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car."

11-19-2009, 08:26 PM	#21
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	What a maroon.. __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

11-19-2009, 10:14 PM	#22
ZenGum Doctor Wtf Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 12,861	I'm with DaVinci - most of the way. The US military has a pretty bad reputation for friendly fire incidents. BUT ... given a choice of Australia Vs [Insert powerful foreign nation of your choice] either with or without US involvement, we put up with the firendly fire because, overall, it is worth it. Looks bad in the papers, though. __________________ Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.

11-20-2009, 03:20 AM	#23
Adak Lecturer Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 796	The BBC news reported that the sonic device didn't stop the pirates in their (second!) attack on the Maersk Alabama. Ineffective, but they aren't sure why. The shipping line had taken the precaution of hiring some security troops to repel pirate attacks. They worked.

11-20-2009, 06:39 AM	#24
spudcon Beware of potatoes Join Date: May 2007 Location: Upstate NY, USA Posts: 2,078	And they were very friendly while firing on the pirates. __________________ "I believe that being despised by the despicable is as good as being admired by the admirable."

11-20-2009, 09:49 AM	#26
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	there is no shipping lane there. Ships used to stay close to shore to keep the trip short as they went around Africa. Then the pirates came, so they moved out further into the ocean. The pirates followed, now the ships are scattered hundreds of miles off shore with the pirates sniffing around for them. Bruce is right that it's a HUGE area.

11-20-2009, 11:14 PM	#27
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	Americans > friendly fire rep = British > bad teeth rep __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

11-21-2009, 12:17 AM	#28
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	Why the shipping companies don't just put some heavy hardware on their vessels and blow these bastards out of the water is puzzling to me. I guess it has something to do with bringing armed vessels into ports being a no no under international law. This piracy is going to continue as long as ransoms are being paid out and the risks are relatively low, which continues to be the case. If 80% of the piracy events ended in the deaths of the pirates, instead of in success, it would probably become much more rare. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

11-21-2009, 12:34 AM	#29
ZenGum Doctor Wtf Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 12,861	What is really needed is an effective government in Somalia. Anyone up for a re-invasion? 3rd front? __________________ Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.

11-21-2009, 02:07 AM	#30
Adak Lecturer Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 796	I doubt if you could make Somalia "right" with an invasion. Millions of people, armed to the teeth, stubbornly supporting different brands of Islam - they can't even agree on what kind of Islamic law they want. Getting them to agree to the kind of reforms that would be necessary to get Somalia back up on it's feet with a working government, is just not going to happen in that kind of absolutist atmosphere. Best thing is just to leave them alone to sort it out. It's an exercise in futility to try and cram good government down people's throats, if they don't want to support it. Eventually, they'll see "this ain't working, we need to make some compromises and quit fighting amongst ourselves, for the good of the country". Or they won't. Toughening up the international laws on piracy and putting some security personnel on board, with the weapons they'll need, might have to do, in the meantime.

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