|
Politics Where we learn not to think less of others who don't share our views |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
11-05-2004, 10:27 AM | #16 | |
Guest
Posts: n/a
|
Quote:
Perhaps it is easy for people who live in the sophisticated metro areas in the eastern part of the US to write off the evangelicals as a minor voice - I don't know. I live too close for comfort to one of the country's religous right strongholds - Colorado Springs- home of Focus on the Family, etc., etc. The intolerance and prejudice evangelicals display toward members of different faiths is astonishing. Some examples: I am friends with a man who runs a little Tibetan import shop in Colorado Springs. He carries a large stock of Buddhist related items. The last time I dropped over to see him, he related a story to me of how a woman had come into his shop in a rage and told him that his people and his religion did not belong in the US and that he should go to hell back home. I took the daughter of a male friend of mine with me when I went to visit another shop in Colorado Springs. This one carried New Age books and items. When the girl's evangelical Christian mother found out about this, she went into hysterics and told her daughter that if she ever went to that place again, the girl was going straight to hell. I was sitting in a coffee shop in Colorado Springs and fell into a conversation with a stranger who was sitting at the table next to mine. I mentioned the name of the town where I live, locally known as a Pagan hangout; and the man turned hostile at once. "I wouldn't keep staying up there if I were you," he said. "God is going to take care of all the witches up there, and the streets will run with blood!" I got up and walked away. These are not isolated incidents. I could write down many, many more. Do not underestimate the religous right. They certainly are not cutting any slack to anyone else. |
|
11-05-2004, 11:07 AM | #17 | |
lobber of scimitars
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Phila Burbs
Posts: 20,774
|
Quote:
__________________
wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis |
|
11-05-2004, 12:21 PM | #18 |
whig
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 5,075
|
UT - considering how close the election way, a block of 22% is huge. It is public knowledge that Rove's strategy this election was to win by motivating the religious right, it worked.
Yelof - oil is traded in Euros as well. I'm not going to say any more, such events inhabit a relm of disasters where all bets are off, I don't expect something that drastic, the world simply wouldn't let it happen, but I do expect the necessary........readjustment of things
__________________
Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain |
11-05-2004, 12:37 PM | #19 |
Radical Centrist
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,423
|
A block of 22% is huge, but the point is that this is not the "story of the election". This is like, in American football, where the loss is blamed on the holding penalty that helped the final winning scoring drive, and the events of the previous drives are simply forgotten. Caring about that 22% means you're purposefully ignoring 78%.
Mari, there's no need for you to say something like "I can't quite figure out Coyne's math, but whatever." I actually assume a similar statement preceding every post you've ever written. "Whatever," indeed; no need to actually understand the world, full speed ahead with the blazing alarm bells you're hearing in your head today. |
11-05-2004, 12:46 PM | #20 |
whig
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 5,075
|
But if you go though the groups and numbers it's that group that got him over the line, by targeting one group you're not necessarily ignoring the rest, it was a core strategy to get those groups out to vote - in many cases by *cough* subtle suggestions in church itself that did it. By the time they're finished the Supreme Court is going to make the KKK look leftist.
__________________
Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain |
11-05-2004, 12:49 PM | #21 | |
Guest
Posts: n/a
|
Quote:
I accepted Coyne's premise of 2/3 of Bush's support coming from people who considered other issues as or more important than the religous rights' agenda. That leaves 1/3 who considered "moral values" of primary importance. I didn't feel like going through the math to figure out how 78% of the vote over-all translated to 2/3 of Bush's support. |
|
11-05-2004, 12:50 PM | #22 | |
Syndrome of a Down
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: West Chester
Posts: 1,367
|
Coyne is a bit off.
Quote:
There were indeed a lot of Bush voters motivated by terrorphobia and a belief that Bush would be a more competent war leader than Kerry, which is a sad indictment of much of the voting public. 2) Again, taxes and the economy are separate (if related) issues. When I think "economy" I think jobs, the stock market, layoffs, unemployment, etc., not 1040 forms. They're not unrelated, but they are distinct. 3) I'm not suggesting that EVERYBODY who voted for Bush was a raving bible-thumper, not by a long shot. But what state was the turning point? Ohio. What drew a hell of a lot of religious folk to the polls, helping to counter the major turnout in Ohio's cities? Ohio's anti-gay-marriage proposition. If that's the two-minute drill that won the game, to use your analogy that popped up while I was posting, fine -- but this was a close game until that finish, not some 49-3 blowout where the Democrats are bitching about how the last touchdown scored. In a state that lived up to its billing as being crucial to this election, they made a significant difference. And regardless of how pivotal a role the religious right truly played, they _are_ lining up to take credit and demand action. We may not feel it quite as much up here, but there are going to be a whooooooole lot of Roy Moore and Santorum sound-alikes making life very uncomfortable in a lot of places, particularly if the Constitution Restoration Act goes through this time. With the newly revised Senate, I wouldn't bet against it, and that scares the shit out of me. Last edited by vsp; 11-05-2004 at 12:54 PM. |
|
11-05-2004, 01:15 PM | #23 |
Radical Centrist
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,423
|
All that and he only won by 100,000? Booga booga.
If you're scared, get a dog. http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pag.../epolls.0.html Taxes (5%): Bush 57%, Kerry 43% Education (4%): Bush 26%, Kerry 73% Iraq (15%): Bush 26%, Kerry 73% Terrorism (19%): Bush 86%, Kerry 14% Economy/Jobs (20%): Bush 18%, Kerry 80% Moral Values (22%): Bush 80%, Kerry 18% Health Care (8%): Bush 23%, Kerry 77% Question #1. From this table, can you derive the "story of the election"? Question #2. If "Moral Values" translates well to "evangelical", and these people were "targetted", why did 18% of them vote for Kerry? |
11-05-2004, 01:19 PM | #24 |
Radical Centrist
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,423
|
Question #3. If some dude came up to you outside your polling place and wanted to ask you a long set of questions about why you voted the way you did, wouldn't you tell him to screw off? 3b. What kinds of people would NOT?
Question #4. If these results came from the same place as the now-infamously inaccurate "exit polls" which showed a decisive Kerry victory by mid-day, why would you want to take any lessons from them in the first place? |
11-05-2004, 01:23 PM | #25 | |
neither here nor there
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 179
|
Quote:
There was some talk of Russia doing so (selling oil direct to Germany priced in €) around the time of the invasion, but I've heard nothing of it recently..I guess Putan has made his Peace with W, wonder what the price was. I talked the pricing in Euro thing to a economist friend of mine who works in Brussels and he says it would never happen as most world government forigen reserves are in $ and the necessary re-alignment would be catistrophic. However I guess I could imagine a regime coming to power in Saudi Arabia hostile to the US who starts an economic war on the US in this maner |
|
11-05-2004, 01:32 PM | #26 | ||
Syndrome of a Down
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: West Chester
Posts: 1,367
|
Quote:
Quote:
2) Not everyone who is religious is a crackpot. The one comfort I'm drawing is from reports that if you single out the 18-29 vote in each state, Kerry wins 375-163 and takes almost everything in the eastern half of the US (excepting South Carolina, Georgia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, Louisiana, and (surprisingly) Maine). Maybe there's hope for the future. |
||
11-05-2004, 02:02 PM | #27 | |
Gone and done
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,808
|
Quote:
Eh, Lincoln should have let the South go. We'd be better off. - Pie, ashamed of my government.
__________________
per·son \ˈpər-sən\ (noun) - an ephemeral collection of small, irrational decisions The fun thing about evolution (and science in general) is that it happens whether you believe in it or not. |
|
11-05-2004, 02:15 PM | #28 |
whig
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 5,075
|
Yelof, depends on the level of trading. While at the moment there is no need to re-align things and yes, it would be a touch messy but in a scenario where the US currency stability is under serious doubt (generally we're looking at a scenario where the deficit increases or remains and current levels for a significant period of time combined with the current buyers of US debt - mostly Asian central banks controlling their own currencies floating their currencies forcing a situation where yields have to raise from their artificially low levels putting more pressure on the federal bank) it is a solution, or part thereof of a very complex series of political and economic machinations designed to deflect some of the impact to avoid another depression.
__________________
Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain |
11-05-2004, 03:27 PM | #29 | |
Guest
Posts: n/a
|
Quote:
2) Damn good targeting to pick up 82% of their vote. The other 18% didn't have the common sense brain washed out of them. 3) I might or might not tell him to screw off. Depends on how much time I had, the manner I was approached, the time of day, on and on. Without knowing the answers to these questions, I can't tell you what sort of people would be most co-operative. 4) The polls were within a 1% or 2% margin of error - enough to throw off predictions in a tight race, but still useful when analyzing over all voting trends. Also, the polls throughout the day were from an incomplete sample of voters. The final tabulations which show voting trends were finished after a complete sample was taken Last edited by marichiko; 11-05-2004 at 03:32 PM. |
|
11-05-2004, 04:40 PM | #30 | |
still says videotape
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 26,813
|
Quote:
A lot of regular Republicans got out to vote for Bush but I wonder how many election cycles they'll be on board for huge deficits and gay bashing?
__________________
If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis |
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|