Headfirst into an empty pool...

headsplice · 08-11-2003, 11:18 AM

First, a little background:
Three weeks ago today, I got a new job. One day, I'm doing proprietary hardware/software tech support for a trucking logistics firm, the next I am a network admin for a media duplication facility. Wheeee! One problem: it's a mixed Linux/NT environment. The NT part I have covered (I have enough experience to be able to click through menus and find out what I need to find out). Linux, however, is a little bit more difficult hurdle to overcome.
Now, the question:
What would the Linux folks recommend out there for a crash course (and I mean CRASH, I have to build a business system server in the next couple of weeks) for getting myself going as a Linux admin? I will have a couple of other folks that will be helping me get the server set up, but after that the machine really is my responsibility.
thanks for any help you can give.

cheers!

08-11-2003, 12:13 PM

Uh....

Dude, it just can't be done that way. Like all things worth doing, this needs to be done slowly. You will simply not catch as much as you need to be a superb network admin with a crash course.

Now, you can probably get enough to get by. I can't help you with books because I've never learned to read. But I *can* offer you help if you need it. A private message works, and I'll give you my email address if it's something that needs immediate attention.

One important skill is learning to keep an open mind and thinking outside the box (really the same thing). This will help you get past a great number of obstacles you'll come across.

The type of thinking I'm talking about requires either a sharp mind or a lot of experience. As an example, here's this, which should give you an idea of the kinds of problems you'll run across (and how to solve them):

http://www.cellar.org/showthread.php...=4724#post4724

(Check that post, and then follow it on to the next page for the solution.)

Undertoad · 08-11-2003, 12:13 PM

1. Hire me! I can administer the box remotely; I have years and years and years of experience doing exactly that. My hourly rates are a complete and total outrage, but you won't be the one footing the bill.

2. If you are truly a competent computer person, if you have the genes, if you have the will, dive headfirst into this yourself. At this time, only about half of the Linux administrative tools have decent front-end interfaces that can be run well with a menu. Learn how to find your way around a shell prompt. Digest the setup of a major application that your organization needs to use - such as Apache. Learn the vi editor to the point where you are comfortable editing config files with it. Get your boss to buy a few O'Reilly books, and eat them like they were your last meal.

At that point you will be much more highly marketable and can get a new job for twice the money. Repeat until demoralized.

3. Buy Red Hat shrinkwrap box (quick before they stop issuing them). Put in first install disk. Follow instructions on screen. Tell your boss you know it. Make sure you get a few hours of research time for any problems that might occur. Tell your boss to spring for the Red Hat network to keep your system up to date.

headsplice · 08-11-2003, 03:12 PM

...there's just enough water for me to drown.
I probably should have been somewhat more specific in my smashing about: I don't have to build the business system, just the server to host it. Plus, I have to be able to administrate el boxo once the OS is up and going (possibly important note: RH is the distro of choice, and is already running on a couple of diff. servers right now, nominally but not practically [yet] my responsibility).
Thus, what I'm really looking for is something that will help me dig into the nuts and bolts of the OS and figure out how to do things like recompiling the kernel. Stuff that, once you do it, isn't that hard; figuring out how to do it when you have no frame of reference is a little more difficult.
Thanks for the help folks!

p.s., sorry UT, I don't think my bosses will spring for another remote admin (my technical super is off-site already). Plus, how am I supposed to learn this stuff if you do it all!

SteveDallas · 08-11-2003, 03:44 PM

Call me clueless. I've been admining a Linux box for 5 years and I've never felt the urge to rebuild the kernel. Ongoing stability is more important to me than keeping up with the latest.

Having said that, what I'm running is badly in need of upgrading, simply because it's sometimes hard to install new software I want on it because it has old versions of stuff. But most of the times I can do that on other boxen. What I really need this one to do is server up web pages and email, and never crash. And it does.

Anyway, two books that I would recommend. They're complementary in some ways. "The UNIX System Administration Handbook" by Evi Nemeth et al. has been a favorite of mine through three editions. They now have a "Linux Administration Handbook".

Second, Essential System Administration Aeleen Frisch, from O'Reilly (a company which, if you haven't heard of it, has published the definitive works on many UNIX-y kinds of things such as perl and sendmail).

Both will serve you well.

Both will serve you well.

Undertoad · 08-11-2003, 05:48 PM

splice, then, my item #3 is your ideal choice. Putting it on the Red Hat network will ensure that you basically have to do nothing to get and install the patches.

If you buy a Penguin Computing system through the link on the home page, the Cellar gets a cut. And then you don't even have to install... just run that Red Hat network and get all the patches. Penguin hardware is very well thought-out... aside from disk drives I had one box live in a rack-mount for five years, dishin' out bits...

At that point, you ask management: is this system running a mission-critical application? If so, it should be supported correctly, because even a seasoned professional can come up against a problem s/he has never seen and cannot solve completely without support.

A Red Hat standard service contract should do nicely. This allows you some leeway, because you can ask them about urgent problems that crop up, or things that you can't work out on your own from the web or from books or us. You can even ask for advice before buying things or implementing new approaches. Or even before running specific commands. (From my time on the other ends of those support lines, I think they would LOVE answering those kinds of questions.)

If your folks can't afford a service contract, or put service contracts on their hardware but not their software, then they will not complain when something causes that system to suddenly need a complete, time-consuming reinstall and reload. That's what they get if they want you to admin a box and they just give you a few books.

Besides, it's cheaper than buying the classes... which is yer other option.

(I would commute by air to mpls if the pay was good enough)

08-11-2003, 11:18 AM	#1
headsplice Relaxed Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 676	Headfirst into an empty pool... First, a little background: Three weeks ago today, I got a new job. One day, I'm doing proprietary hardware/software tech support for a trucking logistics firm, the next I am a network admin for a media duplication facility. Wheeee! One problem: it's a mixed Linux/NT environment. The NT part I have covered (I have enough experience to be able to click through menus and find out what I need to find out). Linux, however, is a little bit more difficult hurdle to overcome. Now, the question: What would the Linux folks recommend out there for a crash course (and I mean CRASH, I have to build a business system server in the next couple of weeks) for getting myself going as a Linux admin? I will have a couple of other folks that will be helping me get the server set up, but after that the machine really is my responsibility. thanks for any help you can give. cheers! __________________ Don't Panic

08-11-2003, 03:12 PM	#4
headsplice Relaxed Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 676	Okay, so the pool isn't completely empty... ...there's just enough water for me to drown. I probably should have been somewhat more specific in my smashing about: I don't have to build the business system, just the server to host it. Plus, I have to be able to administrate el boxo once the OS is up and going (possibly important note: RH is the distro of choice, and is already running on a couple of diff. servers right now, nominally but not practically [yet] my responsibility). Thus, what I'm really looking for is something that will help me dig into the nuts and bolts of the OS and figure out how to do things like recompiling the kernel. Stuff that, once you do it, isn't that hard; figuring out how to do it when you have no frame of reference is a little more difficult. Thanks for the help folks! p.s., sorry UT, I don't think my bosses will spring for another remote admin (my technical super is off-site already). Plus, how am I supposed to learn this stuff if you do it all! __________________ Don't Panic

08-11-2003, 12:13 PM	#2
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Uh.... Dude, it just can't be done that way. Like all things worth doing, this needs to be done slowly. You will simply not catch as much as you need to be a superb network admin with a crash course. Now, you can probably get enough to get by. I can't help you with books because I've never learned to read. But I can offer you help if you need it. A private message works, and I'll give you my email address if it's something that needs immediate attention. One important skill is learning to keep an open mind and thinking outside the box (really the same thing). This will help you get past a great number of obstacles you'll come across. The type of thinking I'm talking about requires either a sharp mind or a lot of experience. As an example, here's this, which should give you an idea of the kinds of problems you'll run across (and how to solve them): http://www.cellar.org/showthread.php...=4724#post4724 (Check that post, and then follow it on to the next page for the solution.)

08-11-2003, 12:13 PM	#3
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	1. Hire me! I can administer the box remotely; I have years and years and years of experience doing exactly that. My hourly rates are a complete and total outrage, but you won't be the one footing the bill. 2. If you are truly a competent computer person, if you have the genes, if you have the will, dive headfirst into this yourself. At this time, only about half of the Linux administrative tools have decent front-end interfaces that can be run well with a menu. Learn how to find your way around a shell prompt. Digest the setup of a major application that your organization needs to use - such as Apache. Learn the vi editor to the point where you are comfortable editing config files with it. Get your boss to buy a few O'Reilly books, and eat them like they were your last meal. At that point you will be much more highly marketable and can get a new job for twice the money. Repeat until demoralized. 3. Buy Red Hat shrinkwrap box (quick before they stop issuing them). Put in first install disk. Follow instructions on screen. Tell your boss you know it. Make sure you get a few hours of research time for any problems that might occur. Tell your boss to spring for the Red Hat network to keep your system up to date.

08-11-2003, 03:44 PM	#5
SteveDallas Your Bartender Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Philly Burbs, PA Posts: 7,651	Call me clueless. I've been admining a Linux box for 5 years and I've never felt the urge to rebuild the kernel. Ongoing stability is more important to me than keeping up with the latest. Having said that, what I'm running is badly in need of upgrading, simply because it's sometimes hard to install new software I want on it because it has old versions of stuff. But most of the times I can do that on other boxen. What I really need this one to do is server up web pages and email, and never crash. And it does. Anyway, two books that I would recommend. They're complementary in some ways. "The UNIX System Administration Handbook" by Evi Nemeth et al. has been a favorite of mine through three editions. They now have a "Linux Administration Handbook". Second, Essential System Administration Aeleen Frisch, from O'Reilly (a company which, if you haven't heard of it, has published the definitive works on many UNIX-y kinds of things such as perl and sendmail). Both will serve you well. Both will serve you well.

08-11-2003, 05:48 PM	#6
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	splice, then, my item #3 is your ideal choice. Putting it on the Red Hat network will ensure that you basically have to do nothing to get and install the patches. If you buy a Penguin Computing system through the link on the home page, the Cellar gets a cut. And then you don't even have to install... just run that Red Hat network and get all the patches. Penguin hardware is very well thought-out... aside from disk drives I had one box live in a rack-mount for five years, dishin' out bits... At that point, you ask management: is this system running a mission-critical application? If so, it should be supported correctly, because even a seasoned professional can come up against a problem s/he has never seen and cannot solve completely without support. A Red Hat standard service contract should do nicely. This allows you some leeway, because you can ask them about urgent problems that crop up, or things that you can't work out on your own from the web or from books or us. You can even ask for advice before buying things or implementing new approaches. Or even before running specific commands. (From my time on the other ends of those support lines, I think they would LOVE answering those kinds of questions.) If your folks can't afford a service contract, or put service contracts on their hardware but not their software, then they will not complain when something causes that system to suddenly need a complete, time-consuming reinstall and reload. That's what they get if they want you to admin a box and they just give you a few books. Besides, it's cheaper than buying the classes... which is yer other option. (I would commute by air to mpls if the pay was good enough)

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