What depresses me most about Blair

JayMcGee · 08-17-2006, 07:32 PM

is that he's only the first of many who have become PM as a career choice rather than from polictical idealism.

9th Engineer · 08-17-2006, 11:21 PM

What makes you tack the 'of many' onto that?

Cyclefrance · 08-18-2006, 12:46 AM

But do you think his uncanny abilty to screw virtually everything up he touches is a skill he knew he possessed but didn't care because of his personal ambitions, or do you thiink that this trait is something he hasn't yet realised he has and that he actually thinks he is making significant improvements in everything he does?

DanaC · 08-18-2006, 03:20 AM

Cyclefrance: I think Blair feels beset on all sides by people who don't understand the tough decisions he has to make as leader......he reminds me a little of Thatcher in her last couple of years. Very out of touch, something of the messianic martyr and a determination not to be swayed by those around him. He believes he is right, I think he is arrogant enough to think he is right and the rest of the world will catch up sooner or later.

9th: I suspect Jay has referred to Blair as 'the first of many' of that kind of career politician, because that's all there is to see amongst the likely contenders. There are one or two impressive people within the field of politics but the vast majority are uninspiring careerists (in all the major parties). That carries through to the Bright Young Things who are starting to make their presence felt. They are like mini-blairs and mini-camerons. I cannot think of any really inspiring up and coming politicians at this time, in any party.

There must be some.....somewhere.....but where? I know amongst Labour most of the really impressive, politically inspired and inspiring MPs will never be anything but backbenchers. Why? because they tend to get classed early on as 'rebels', for disagreeing with some of the worst of our current leader's ideas and obsessions. He's shuffled his cabinet so often. Everytime someone gets inconveniently vocal they vanish back to the benches and he drafts in someone more amenable to his cause. In cases where his 'friends' have been involved in scandals, he abandons them fairly quickly, gets them to resign and then replaces them from amongst his shrinking crop of hopefuls. Consequently, even those who were his friends end up hating him.

I know a handful of backbench MPs. They represent their constituents, they refuse to be bought with empty promises and blair's broken rhetoric. One of them was an MP for two terms, before she retired. Her name is Alice and she is one of my absolute heroes. That woman is able to rally a room, she speaks from the souls of her feet and has a twinkle in her eyes. She's old school. She rebelled against the move to reduce assistance for single mums and got relegated to the ranks of the rebels. End of parliamentary career. She was a great MP, her constituents loved her, and when she moved on to UN and amnesty work, her successor was in a similar mould. Linda: also a wonderful woman, but also entering politics at quite a late stage in life and also already earmarked as a rebel because she wouldn't vote for various draconian measures.

Incidentally, there has been a change in how the whip works within labour. Cyclefrance and Jay, you may find this interesting: If a Labour MP votes against the government now, they will face 'suspension' which would mean if it was near election time, they'd be barred from reselection. See, they don't want to have to win the argument with their own side. Not even if their stance is a total departure from party ideals or election promises:P

As a lifelong Labour supporter and current activist and Labour Councillor, you can imagine how terribly impressed I am with that. There are times I despair, but then I remind myself: Labour is not just the cabinet, it is not just the Whitehall scene. Labour is the MP that fights for better nursery provision; it's the Surestart programme and the Every Child Matters agenda; it's the MP that sits and listens to the asylum seeker who isn't able to get help or assistance from the system and is now living in doorways; It's the minimum wage and an insistence on equal pay for women;it's the grassroots, the membership who have never been as far to the right as this government is; it's people who believe in social justice and don't accept the argument that the world has moved beyond it, or that we can't afford it. And it absolutely isn't, and never was, Tony Fucking Blair.

Aliantha · 08-18-2006, 03:43 AM

Geez Dana...very impressive analysis there. We have similar issues with our political system here in Oz although not to the point of "suspending" members for voting against. in fact, we have one member who has 'crossed the floor' several times recently and caused major policy changes because of his canny ability to play his cards just at the right time. I really believe that politics is all about timing and getting the right things said and done at the right time. If you vote with the herd, you'll always be one of the herd. If you place you vote wisely at the right time, you can change the world...or at least your little part of it...and that's what labour is all about. In my very humble opinion.

DanaC · 08-18-2006, 03:53 AM

Nicely put Ali. Timing is paramount. I know Linda learned from Alice and was very careful when she first got elected, not to just rebel straight off. There was a vote on ID cards, instead of saying straight out that she was against them, she asked them to convince her. She 'kept an open mind' right up to the vote. Nothing they told her convinced her and she could not, in good conscience vote for it. Her Constiuency party had moved to oppose it and she would have been betraying the people who selected her and to whom she has to answer had she voted with the government.

This of course is why so many do rebel. They aren't solely answerable to whitehall, they also have their local party to think of. Since the local parties are almost all to the left of Blair this can lead to problems. I know of one local MP who voted for something that her local party had been dead against. She had told them she would vote against but then was 'persuaded' to support the government. her local party weren't happy. They felt betrayed and summoned her to explain herself.

*grins* my but it's a sordid little game is politics. No less so at the local level than the national. I could tell you stories that would curl your toes P

Aliantha · 08-20-2006, 12:37 AM

Believe me, my toes are already curled. Local politics is an interesting little dog fight at the best of times. At the worst, it's just downright nasty. I think the structure of our political system here is good though, in that it allows those people who want to be involved to voice their opinions or even create their own bandwagons. We're comming up to a state election in a couple of weeks and it should be a close race, but I think the labour party might just scrape in if we're lucky. My partner is certainly hoping labour wins our local seat. It'll affect his business adversely if they don't. Then again, the other side have done a decent job recently too, so it wouldn't be so bad. It's just the bloody principal of it.

JayMcGee · 08-20-2006, 07:44 PM

Indeed, two masterly peice's of writing, DanaC.

As a life-long Socialist, I was overjoyed when New Labour finally attained power..... imagine my disapointment when I realized just *how* new New Labour was......

As for Blair himself...... I have known a politician so out of touch with the people as he. Even Maggie had *some* grasp of what the people thought...

JayMcGee · 08-20-2006, 07:45 PM

never
I have^ known a politician so out of touch

xoxoxoBruce · 08-23-2006, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha

SNIP~ I really believe that politics is all about timing and getting the right things said and done at the right time. If you vote with the herd, you'll always be one of the herd. If you place you vote wisely at the right time, you can change the world...or at least your little part of it...and that's what labour is all about. In my very humble opinion.

You can change the World and possibly end your career. This is the danger, Jay led off with.... Representatives that are there by a career choice rather than political idealism.
Voting with the herd, will help assure your employment, and feed the kids.

There was a time, long ago and far away, when elected officials here, and I imagine there, had a career or source of income that allowed them to run for office, to go and work for their ideals. Often, here, it was a one or two term commitment to try and make a difference, then back to their life. If they got booted out, it was no big deal, so they would fight for their principles.

Career politicians stand for nothing but keeping their career going.

08-17-2006, 07:32 PM	#1
JayMcGee Cardigan-wearing man Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Much Binding In The Marsh Posts: 1,082	What depresses me most about Blair is that he's only the first of many who have become PM as a career choice rather than from polictical idealism. __________________ I like wearing cardigans...... my current favourite is an orange cable-knit with real leatherette buttons.

08-17-2006, 11:21 PM	#2
9th Engineer Bioengineer and aspiring lawer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 872	What makes you tack the 'of many' onto that? __________________ The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity.

08-18-2006, 12:46 AM	#3
Cyclefrance Pump my ride! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Deep countryside of Surrey , England Posts: 1,890	But do you think his uncanny abilty to screw virtually everything up he touches is a skill he knew he possessed but didn't care because of his personal ambitions, or do you thiink that this trait is something he hasn't yet realised he has and that he actually thinks he is making significant improvements in everything he does? __________________ Always sufficient hills - never sufficient gears

08-18-2006, 03:20 AM	#4
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Cyclefrance: I think Blair feels beset on all sides by people who don't understand the tough decisions he has to make as leader......he reminds me a little of Thatcher in her last couple of years. Very out of touch, something of the messianic martyr and a determination not to be swayed by those around him. He believes he is right, I think he is arrogant enough to think he is right and the rest of the world will catch up sooner or later. 9th: I suspect Jay has referred to Blair as 'the first of many' of that kind of career politician, because that's all there is to see amongst the likely contenders. There are one or two impressive people within the field of politics but the vast majority are uninspiring careerists (in all the major parties). That carries through to the Bright Young Things who are starting to make their presence felt. They are like mini-blairs and mini-camerons. I cannot think of any really inspiring up and coming politicians at this time, in any party. There must be some.....somewhere.....but where? I know amongst Labour most of the really impressive, politically inspired and inspiring MPs will never be anything but backbenchers. Why? because they tend to get classed early on as 'rebels', for disagreeing with some of the worst of our current leader's ideas and obsessions. He's shuffled his cabinet so often. Everytime someone gets inconveniently vocal they vanish back to the benches and he drafts in someone more amenable to his cause. In cases where his 'friends' have been involved in scandals, he abandons them fairly quickly, gets them to resign and then replaces them from amongst his shrinking crop of hopefuls. Consequently, even those who were his friends end up hating him. I know a handful of backbench MPs. They represent their constituents, they refuse to be bought with empty promises and blair's broken rhetoric. One of them was an MP for two terms, before she retired. Her name is Alice and she is one of my absolute heroes. That woman is able to rally a room, she speaks from the souls of her feet and has a twinkle in her eyes. She's old school. She rebelled against the move to reduce assistance for single mums and got relegated to the ranks of the rebels. End of parliamentary career. She was a great MP, her constituents loved her, and when she moved on to UN and amnesty work, her successor was in a similar mould. Linda: also a wonderful woman, but also entering politics at quite a late stage in life and also already earmarked as a rebel because she wouldn't vote for various draconian measures. Incidentally, there has been a change in how the whip works within labour. Cyclefrance and Jay, you may find this interesting: If a Labour MP votes against the government now, they will face 'suspension' which would mean if it was near election time, they'd be barred from reselection. See, they don't want to have to win the argument with their own side. Not even if their stance is a total departure from party ideals or election promises:P As a lifelong Labour supporter and current activist and Labour Councillor, you can imagine how terribly impressed I am with that. There are times I despair, but then I remind myself: Labour is not just the cabinet, it is not just the Whitehall scene. Labour is the MP that fights for better nursery provision; it's the Surestart programme and the Every Child Matters agenda; it's the MP that sits and listens to the asylum seeker who isn't able to get help or assistance from the system and is now living in doorways; It's the minimum wage and an insistence on equal pay for women;it's the grassroots, the membership who have never been as far to the right as this government is; it's people who believe in social justice and don't accept the argument that the world has moved beyond it, or that we can't afford it. And it absolutely isn't, and never was, Tony Fucking Blair. Last edited by DanaC; 08-18-2006 at 03:32 AM.

08-18-2006, 03:43 AM	#5
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Geez Dana...very impressive analysis there. We have similar issues with our political system here in Oz although not to the point of "suspending" members for voting against. in fact, we have one member who has 'crossed the floor' several times recently and caused major policy changes because of his canny ability to play his cards just at the right time. I really believe that politics is all about timing and getting the right things said and done at the right time. If you vote with the herd, you'll always be one of the herd. If you place you vote wisely at the right time, you can change the world...or at least your little part of it...and that's what labour is all about. In my very humble opinion. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

08-18-2006, 03:53 AM	#6
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Nicely put Ali. Timing is paramount. I know Linda learned from Alice and was very careful when she first got elected, not to just rebel straight off. There was a vote on ID cards, instead of saying straight out that she was against them, she asked them to convince her. She 'kept an open mind' right up to the vote. Nothing they told her convinced her and she could not, in good conscience vote for it. Her Constiuency party had moved to oppose it and she would have been betraying the people who selected her and to whom she has to answer had she voted with the government. This of course is why so many do rebel. They aren't solely answerable to whitehall, they also have their local party to think of. Since the local parties are almost all to the left of Blair this can lead to problems. I know of one local MP who voted for something that her local party had been dead against. She had told them she would vote against but then was 'persuaded' to support the government. her local party weren't happy. They felt betrayed and summoned her to explain herself. grins my but it's a sordid little game is politics. No less so at the local level than the national. I could tell you stories that would curl your toes P

08-20-2006, 12:37 AM	#7
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Believe me, my toes are already curled. Local politics is an interesting little dog fight at the best of times. At the worst, it's just downright nasty. I think the structure of our political system here is good though, in that it allows those people who want to be involved to voice their opinions or even create their own bandwagons. We're comming up to a state election in a couple of weeks and it should be a close race, but I think the labour party might just scrape in if we're lucky. My partner is certainly hoping labour wins our local seat. It'll affect his business adversely if they don't. Then again, the other side have done a decent job recently too, so it wouldn't be so bad. It's just the bloody principal of it. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

08-20-2006, 07:44 PM	#8
JayMcGee Cardigan-wearing man Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Much Binding In The Marsh Posts: 1,082	Indeed, two masterly peice's of writing, DanaC. As a life-long Socialist, I was overjoyed when New Labour finally attained power..... imagine my disapointment when I realized just how new New Labour was...... As for Blair himself...... I have known a politician so out of touch with the people as he. Even Maggie had some grasp of what the people thought... __________________ I like wearing cardigans...... my current favourite is an orange cable-knit with real leatherette buttons.

08-20-2006, 07:45 PM	#9
JayMcGee Cardigan-wearing man Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Much Binding In The Marsh Posts: 1,082	never I have^ known a politician so out of touch __________________ I like wearing cardigans...... my current favourite is an orange cable-knit with real leatherette buttons.

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