"I can't Hate Donald Trump"

[Undertoad]

when I hear complaints from the right about pc it sounds like they want public officials to put those people in their place by using the N word or going back to denouncing homosexuality in press conferences

really? do they say that, or is it more nuanced and you have to interpret what you see through your own informed lens.

Because the piece says it's more nuanced:

As a Southerner myself, two things I've maintained for years about Southerners (which generalizes to a bulk of today's conservatives) are

- They have a complicated relationship with race (which generalizes to identity politics), and
- They can change, but not as fast as progressive liberals want them to.

To the first of these points, most conservatives are not quite racist, but they hold attitudes and say things that more racially sensitive people would see as racist. The great fall of buttercream mogul Paula Deen, and its borderline-insane conservative backlash, makes a great example. This distinction is subtle but important, and a huge part of it lies in realizing that conservatives, often at some considerable personal effort, do not see themselves as racist and often actively try not to be.

It's like, the new polite society heard Deen and said, "Hey that's racist". The not quite so fashionable people heard Deen and said "WTF, that's nothing; we know her, she speaks our language and she is not a racist. And if that's what gets you fired from, geez, not only basic cable, but the whole general public? We don't even know where we are any more."

I'll tellya, being from around here, and that means in the big connected metropolitan area (and on the Internet, frankly), Pittsburgh feels 10 years behind when I visit it. I can't imagine what Birmingham is like.

It's not bragging. It's not like Philadelphia is any magically better. The people face the same problems. Because all our polite talk hasn't really solved very much, if one cares to admit it. The ghetto remains the ghetto. The poor remain poor. Empathy is still at a premium. But we sure do like to feel better about *ourselves* for it all.

And aren't the Trump voters, as a bloc, the people we get to feel we're better than? And we the fashionable have a strange way of convincing people, the only way we know is shaming them.

And now, when I see the fashionable people mocking, shaming, getting angry, repeating things over and over, and having nothing else for a topic of conversation, I think, this is going exactly how you want it to go. You actually want this shaming. It is making you feel superior. You LOVE it. There is JOY in your voice and in your words. And with your voice and words you will elect Trump.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by Griff

They may make things incrementally better but I see where stuff like pronoun usage for people you don't know really isn't manageable. ...

But, but, if their contribution is to talking the talk, then it's up to someone else to make walking the walk better now isn't it.

The main complaint about political correctness is that it's a placebo for the masses. It's too easily abused by individuals and groups to inflate their importance by mislabeling differences as intolerance and fear as hate.

Let people say what they want to say within reason so their opinions aren't driven underground with their actions to follow, especially in the political arena. I'll make my own decisions about when lines are crossed.

That's one of the differences between Clinton and Trump: Clinton tries to use political correctness to tell people what to think. Clinton appeals to the human drones. Trump tells people what he thinks and leaves it up to them. Clinton is part of the problem. That doesn't mean Trump is the solution; but, his communication style has gained him traction that even the rest of the GOP doesn't have.

The bottom line is that the less pc there is, the more frank the discussions and the more likely resulting change will be lasting change. That's the pc complaint.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Discussions of PC most often center about race, which is a distraction from both race and PC-ness.
If I see someone in a wheelchair I say they are crippled. Right away someone says, no-no, they are "handicapped", but another jumps in, they're "motion restricted". Whoa stop, they are "locomotion attenuated". By the time everybody settles on an acceptable terminology, everyone is butt hurt and it's way passed bed time. Meanwhile nothing of value has been discussed, and whenever I hear any of those terms I automatically translate to cripple in my head.

If you are bored, and want to kill a lot of time while making a lot of enemies, describe someone retarded. Recently in an automotive forum, a guy was describing an ignition timing problem, saying it was acting retarded. Right away two people jumped on his shit for using that word. Mindless reaction, no brain involved... retards.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

really? do they say that, or is it more nuanced and you have to interpret what you see through your own informed lens.

Because the piece says it's more nuanced:

You are right as it is a gut reaction not knowledge of fact. My internalized examples are from Trump folks I presume feel threatened by changing demographics, a 2D cartoon of reality much like the cartoon of the Bernie supporter as a millennial free-rider.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

If you are bored, and want to kill a lot of time while making a lot of enemies, describe someone retarded. Recently in an automotive forum, a guy was describing an ignition timing problem, saying it was acting retarded. Right away two people jumped on his shit for using that word. Mindless reaction, no brain involved... retards.

This one is especially fascinating to me because it is still very much a legitimate medical diagnosis. Little known fact, "moron," "idiot," and "imbecile" also used to be medical terms, with specific associated IQ levels. They updated the terminology when those words became common pejoratives, but now the pejorative rejection moves so fast, medicine can't keep up. Your kid has a diagnosis of mental retardation, just don't read his file out loud in public...

[Griff]

When I was in Grad school it was still Mental Retardation but we just said MR because kids do have ears. It changed to Intellectual Disability with the DSM-V following the Fed Gov change over. I serve a teenager with Down's who was being mocked as a "retard" in his high school hallways, of course he calls himself nigga, so turnabout I guess.

[Clodfobble]

Ah, I didn't know that was one of the changes in the DSM-V! Good to know. Pretty sure there's still an American Medical Association diagnosis code for MR, but there are also diagnosis codes for Aspergers and PDD-NOS even though those don't exist in the DSM-V either. Takes awhile for everyone to catch up with each other.

[xoxoxoBruce]

But isn't bunching a variety of different problems with their unique solutions, into one catch all heading, confusing for everyone? Or is this for the insurance companies and paper pushers, but not really affecting doctors?

[tw]

Originally Posted by Griff

I serve a teenager with Down's who was being mocked as a "retard" in his high school hallways, of course he calls himself nigga, so turnabout I guess.

How does this apply to political correctness? Are you saying this is the result of PC?

[Clodfobble]

The conversation has drifted, tw.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

The conversation has drifted, tw.

- more like fell off a cliff. Donald Trump probably hates that. He is no long the topic.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

But isn't bunching a variety of different problems with their unique solutions, into one catch all heading, confusing for everyone? Or is this for the insurance companies and paper pushers, but not really affecting doctors?

That's why my daughter officially got vision therapy for her strabismus, not her autism; and takes anti-inflammatories for her enterocolitis, not her autism; and takes Mucinex for her allergies, not her autism... We don't really understand the overall heading anyway, so it doesn't matter how we group it. Most of the symptoms are already covered by other diseases anyway.

[Griff]

Yeah, every kid is an individual, sometimes the label can actually get in the way of proper treatment other times it helps people change course if they're working the problem wrong.

tdub: A white kid appropriating the "N" word usually runs afoul the pc police but this kid with a disability has his reasons, none of which will likely keep him safe from crossing the wrong group of people.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Ah, I didn't know that was one of the changes in the DSM-V! Good to know. Pretty sure there's still an American Medical Association diagnosis code for MR, but there are also diagnosis codes for Aspergers and PDD-NOS even though those don't exist in the DSM-V either. Takes awhile for everyone to catch up with each other.

Yay for bureaucracies and ever changing goalposts.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Griff

tdub: A white kid appropriating the "N" word usually runs afoul the pc police but this kid with a disability has his reasons, none of which will likely keep him safe from crossing the wrong group of people.

How do I get Turrets syndrome. Then I can say anything I want.