Who is going to pay for it all?

Originally Posted by lookout123

I don't know about that honestly. I'm one of those old fashioned nutjobs who believes it is never wrong to do the right thing. If the president, congress, and associated elected leaders believe there is a compelling reason to go to war (attacked by Japan) then I want them to do the right thing and then order the bean counters to figure out the payment method. Of course, that would require a nation of citizens willing to actually entertain the idea of personal discomfort and sacrifice so I'm not sure that would work here anymore.

Perhaps, in part, because the wars we have sold during our lifetime, from Vietnam to Iraq and Afghanistan, do not come anywhere near reaching the same level of perceived threat as the attack by Japan.

That, and as a nation, we have become much more selfish.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Redux

That, and as a nation, we have become much more selfish.

Yup - that entitlement mentality will be the end of us.

Come to think of it, I may just quit my job and get the handouts - At least I'll have more time at home.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by lookout123

I don't know about that honestly. I'm one of those old fashioned nutjobs who believes it is never wrong to do the right thing. If the president, congress, and associated elected leaders believe there is a compelling reason to go to war (attacked by Japan) then I want them to do the right thing and then order the bean counters to figure out the payment method. Of course, that would require a nation of citizens willing to actually entertain the idea of personal discomfort and sacrifice so I'm not sure that would work here anymore.

So what if "doing the right thing" is providing high quality healthcare at a reasonable cost for all Americans, or fixing the economy. Do you do the right thing and then "order the bean counters to figure out the payment method". Of course, the debate then is to establish what "the right thing" is.

[lookout123]

is providing high quality healthcare at a reasonable cost a component of protecting all enemies both foreign and domestic?

[Spexxvet]

You said:

Originally Posted by lookout123

I don't know about that honestly. I'm one of those old fashioned nutjobs who believes it is never wrong to do the right thing...

"the right thing" encompasses more than just

Originally Posted by lookout123

...protecting all enemies both foreign and domestic?

Just saying.

[lookout123]

I know what you're saying. I'm just saying I don't see government sponsored healthcare as "the right thing". Personal opinion.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by lookout123

I know what you're saying. I'm just saying I don't see government sponsored healthcare as "the right thing". Personal opinion.

fair enough. what would you propose for all these uninsured (or even insured americans) who lose everything due to health care costs? Get cancer=lose your house! this is ok? Have a heartattack=homelessness! THIS is ok? I used to think like you, lookout, then shit happened. if you live long enough shit WILL happen to you - shit BEYOND your control. We don't care about our neighbors in this country. It's stupid.

[Griff]

David Brooks addresses this question in a pretty clear way. Security vs vitality are the competing values he talks about and you can see it in the Cellar arguements.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Griff

David Brooks addresses this question in a pretty clear way. Security vs vitality are the competing values he talks about and you can see it in the Cellar arguements.

I don't think it should come to security OR vitality. The country needs both, IMHO.

[classicman]

What happens when the budget doesn't allow both. I am NOT asking you to choose between healthcare and/or war. It seems that our Gov't just continually spends money we don't have. But what happens when the hard choices have to be made? They don't seem to make them. Instead they spend future money. Both the R's and the D's.

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by Brianna

fair enough. what would you propose for all these uninsured (or even insured americans) who lose everything due to health care costs? Get cancer=lose your house! this is ok? Have a heartattack=homelessness! THIS is ok? I used to think like you, lookout, then shit happened. if you live long enough shit WILL happen to you - shit BEYOND your control. We don't care about our neighbors in this country. It's stupid.

Shit does happen. Shit like losing everything so my first son could be born. Shit happens. Hasn't changed my view yet, but give it time.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

I don't think it should come to security OR vitality. The country needs both, IMHO.

Without vitality, there is zero hope of security. The present Congress and Administration are all-security, no-vitality. This is too myopic to be endured. The Welfare State was proven nonviable in the last century, and this wildeyed pursuit of outworn policies calls not only the Democrats' wisdom into question, but their collective mental hygiene as well.

Way I see it, it proves no one in the senior ranks of the Democratic Party except the Blue Dogs has any wisdom at all.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by classicman

What happens when the budget doesn't allow both. I am NOT asking you to choose between healthcare and/or war. It seems that our Gov't just continually spends money we don't have. But what happens when the hard choices have to be made? They don't seem to make them. Instead they spend future money. Both the R's and the D's.

The short answer to that is INFLATION. This constitutes a direct frontal assault on the US dollar, and the Democrats have carried this assault to an extreme, in pursuit of an ill-considered goal. Enought to make you vote Libertarian, isn't it.

And I say, don't pay for any of it. Don't invent money out of the air to buy it. Just don't do it, at all. We can do without single-payer, government-issue, bureaucrat-rationed health care, coverage, or insurance. We can do with a tort-reformed, nationwide-marketed, nonmonopolistic private health insurance industry.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by glatt

It's open enrollment time at work, and this time of year always pisses me off. The rates go up and the benefits go down. My employer just switched health plans, and the new plan is so bad, my wife and I had a conversation about maybe not covering her and the kids this year. Looking at the numbers, it's clearly not even close to being worth it to have health insurance, but there is always that little chance that one of them will get cancer or something. So we are going to pay an arm and a leg to keep the worthless insurance.

It's hard to know what will happen with health care reform. The devil is in the details and they are not set yet. But it's hard to see how it could be worse than what we have now. If more people start paying into the system, then maybe what I pay to cover sick strangers will be reduced a little bit.

I predict your out of pocket costs for preimums are going to go way up in the near future if the current plans in Congress are passed.

This is one way they are going to pay for it:

http://www.economics21.org/commentar...king-time-bomb