Privacy As You Know It

TheMercenary · 11-11-2007, 11:45 AM

Intel Official: Say Goodbye to Privacy

Nov 11 12:39 PM US/Eastern
By PAMELA HESS

WASHINGTON (AP) - A top intelligence official says it is time people in the United States changed their definition of privacy.
Privacy no longer can mean anonymity, says Donald Kerr, the principal deputy director of national intelligence. Instead, it should mean that government and businesses properly safeguards people's private communications and financial information.

Kerr's comments come as Congress is taking a second look at the Foreign Surveillance Intelligence Act.

Lawmakers hastily changed the 1978 law last summer to allow the government to eavesdrop inside the United States without court permission, so long as one end of the conversation was reasonably believed to be located outside the U.S.

The original law required a court order for any surveillance conducted on U.S. soil, to protect Americans' privacy. The White House argued that the law was obstructing intelligence gathering.

The most contentious issue in the new legislation is whether to shield telecommunications companies from civil lawsuits for allegedly giving the government access to people's private e-mails and phone calls without a court order between 2001 and 2007.

Some lawmakers, including members of the Senate Judiciary Committee, appear reluctant to grant immunity. Suits might be the only way to determine how far the government has burrowed into people's privacy without court permission.

The committee is expected to decide this week whether its version of the bill will protect telecommunications companies.

The central witness in a California lawsuit against AT&T says the government is vacuuming up billions of e-mails and phone calls as they pass through an AT&T switching station in San Francisco.

Mark Klein, a retired AT&T technician, helped connect a device in 2003 that he says diverted and copied onto a government supercomputer every call, e-mail, and Internet site access on AT&T lines.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...cle=1&catnum=0

Drax · 11-11-2007, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Mark Klein, a retired AT&T technician, helped connect a device in 2003 that he says diverted and copied onto a government supercomputer every call, e-mail, and Internet site access on AT&T lines.

Gee, I'm surprised they haven't arrested me for a bit of Bush Bashing over the phone when talking to my Aunt.

BrianR · 11-11-2007, 06:58 PM

Yet...

Drax · 11-11-2007, 07:35 PM

SteveDallas · 11-11-2007, 07:45 PM

Yeah, really, I'm sure they have a long list to get through.

tw · 11-11-2007, 08:09 PM

Appreciate the rationalization that makes this all legal in the eyes of neocons - especially George Jr. When you phone someone, the conversation is live. But if the communication is stored, then it is not wiretapping. If your conversation is stored by any means, then it is not wiretapping, requires no judicial approval, and is fair game to any government law enforcement.

Your phone records now can be freely accessed without judicial review because the information is stored. That is complete contrary to the standards before 2000. But Cheney said the presidency needs more power.

If a whistle blower calls or is called by a reporter, then everyone the whistle blower and reporter talked to - all those conversations and phone records are now accessed without judicial review. Any conversations in those recordings now become accessible to government. But government can be trusted. Just ask Cheney. Under Cheney's agenda, you have no right to privacy. He has said so. These neocons have long insisted you have no constitutional right to privacy. All your e-mails can be read by government without any court oversight. Neocons have decided you are sheep that must be protected by big brother - the neocons.

Worse, warning about this were posted here years ago. Other here denied this would exist.

How to get 'their' attention. Echelon. Echelon. Echelon. Now I have posted about secret government eavesdropping. Everyone in the Cellar will be assimilated.

slang · 11-12-2007, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

All your e-mails can be read by government without any court oversight. Neocons have decided you are sheep that must be protected by big brother - the neocons.

Serious question here TW. Do you believe that those abuses will be dismantled in the next Dem administration?

I seriously doubt it myself but what is your take on that?

HungLikeJesus · 11-12-2007, 08:59 PM

It's a little bit ironic that they want to be able to monitor our e-mails, while at the same time, the Bush administration is trying to prevent us from reading theirs. (the link is to a CNN article:"White House ordered to preserve all e-mail")

Who is working for whom?

Cicero · 11-13-2007, 12:04 PM

http://www.howstuffworks.com/carnivore.htm

I don't think there is a debate about privacy existing. It doesn't. MCI also handed over billing from the customer service department back in 2002.

This article is wrong. (about carnivore) It was adopted long before 2005, and many people knew about it, a lot of attorneys wanted to litigate, and one person I know worked on this project. As early as 1999. It was legal to do outside the United States at the time, and I suppose they are referring to the project being adopted within the United States to monitor inside the United States in 2005 then legalized by the patriot act. It's the same progrom that is probably used, even for this board. But you guys probably already knew about carnivore.

TheMercenary · 11-13-2007, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

Your phone records now can be freely accessed without judicial review because the information is stored. That is complete contrary to the standards before 2000. But Cheney said the presidency needs more power.

Well you can thank the Demoncratically controlled Congress for that, they approved it overwhelmingly.

Cicero · 11-13-2007, 01:34 PM

Nope.

Back in 2000.
http://www.aclu.org/privacy/spying/1...s20000712.html

tw · 11-13-2007, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Well you can thank the Demoncratically controlled Congress for that, they approved it overwhelmingly.

As if the Republicans who most wanted it and pushed for it are now somehow innocent? Same Republicans who also needed Writ of Habeas Corpus to be suspended to conduct further (once illegal) activities all in the name of Fatherland Security (Zieg Heil). Sorry. Could not help myself. The new world order is being imposed.

Cicero · 11-13-2007, 03:51 PM

The whole article is B.S......like it's a news flash or happened just last summer....weird.

11-11-2007, 11:45 AM	#1
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	Privacy As You Know It Intel Official: Say Goodbye to Privacy Nov 11 12:39 PM US/Eastern By PAMELA HESS WASHINGTON (AP) - A top intelligence official says it is time people in the United States changed their definition of privacy. Privacy no longer can mean anonymity, says Donald Kerr, the principal deputy director of national intelligence. Instead, it should mean that government and businesses properly safeguards people's private communications and financial information. Kerr's comments come as Congress is taking a second look at the Foreign Surveillance Intelligence Act. Lawmakers hastily changed the 1978 law last summer to allow the government to eavesdrop inside the United States without court permission, so long as one end of the conversation was reasonably believed to be located outside the U.S. The original law required a court order for any surveillance conducted on U.S. soil, to protect Americans' privacy. The White House argued that the law was obstructing intelligence gathering. The most contentious issue in the new legislation is whether to shield telecommunications companies from civil lawsuits for allegedly giving the government access to people's private e-mails and phone calls without a court order between 2001 and 2007. Some lawmakers, including members of the Senate Judiciary Committee, appear reluctant to grant immunity. Suits might be the only way to determine how far the government has burrowed into people's privacy without court permission. The committee is expected to decide this week whether its version of the bill will protect telecommunications companies. The central witness in a California lawsuit against AT&T says the government is vacuuming up billions of e-mails and phone calls as they pass through an AT&T switching station in San Francisco. Mark Klein, a retired AT&T technician, helped connect a device in 2003 that he says diverted and copied onto a government supercomputer every call, e-mail, and Internet site access on AT&T lines. http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...cle=1&catnum=0 __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

11-12-2007, 08:59 PM	#8
HungLikeJesus Only looks like a disaster tourist Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: above 7,000 feet Posts: 7,208	It's a little bit ironic that they want to be able to monitor our e-mails, while at the same time, the Bush administration is trying to prevent us from reading theirs. (the link is to a CNN article:"White House ordered to preserve all e-mail") Who is working for whom? __________________ Keep Your Bodies Off My Lawn SteveDallas's Random Thread Picker.

11-13-2007, 12:04 PM	#9
Cicero Looking forward to open mic night. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,148	http://www.howstuffworks.com/carnivore.htm I don't think there is a debate about privacy existing. It doesn't. MCI also handed over billing from the customer service department back in 2002. This article is wrong. (about carnivore) It was adopted long before 2005, and many people knew about it, a lot of attorneys wanted to litigate, and one person I know worked on this project. As early as 1999. It was legal to do outside the United States at the time, and I suppose they are referring to the project being adopted within the United States to monitor inside the United States in 2005 then legalized by the patriot act. It's the same progrom that is probably used, even for this board. But you guys probably already knew about carnivore. __________________ Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung

11-13-2007, 01:34 PM	#11
Cicero Looking forward to open mic night. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,148	Nope. Back in 2000. http://www.aclu.org/privacy/spying/1...s20000712.html __________________ Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung Last edited by Cicero; 11-13-2007 at 01:45 PM.

11-13-2007, 03:51 PM	#13
Cicero Looking forward to open mic night. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,148	The whole article is B.S......like it's a news flash or happened just last summer....weird. __________________ Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung

11-11-2007, 06:58 PM	#3
BrianR Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,338	Yet...

11-11-2007, 07:35 PM	#4
Drax Banned Join Date: May 2007 Location: Gallman, MS, USA Posts: 1,933

11-11-2007, 07:45 PM	#5
SteveDallas Your Bartender Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Philly Burbs, PA Posts: 7,651	Yeah, really, I'm sure they have a long list to get through.

11-11-2007, 08:09 PM	#6
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,933	Appreciate the rationalization that makes this all legal in the eyes of neocons - especially George Jr. When you phone someone, the conversation is live. But if the communication is stored, then it is not wiretapping. If your conversation is stored by any means, then it is not wiretapping, requires no judicial approval, and is fair game to any government law enforcement. Your phone records now can be freely accessed without judicial review because the information is stored. That is complete contrary to the standards before 2000. But Cheney said the presidency needs more power. If a whistle blower calls or is called by a reporter, then everyone the whistle blower and reporter talked to - all those conversations and phone records are now accessed without judicial review. Any conversations in those recordings now become accessible to government. But government can be trusted. Just ask Cheney. Under Cheney's agenda, you have no right to privacy. He has said so. These neocons have long insisted you have no constitutional right to privacy. All your e-mails can be read by government without any court oversight. Neocons have decided you are sheep that must be protected by big brother - the neocons. Worse, warning about this were posted here years ago. Other here denied this would exist. How to get 'their' attention. Echelon. Echelon. Echelon. Now I have posted about secret government eavesdropping. Everyone in the Cellar will be assimilated.

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