8/20/2003: Palestinian militant - Page 6

tw · 08-22-2003, 01:10 AM

What is not bullshit - what is fact is that UT is completely one sided against Palestinians and for Israelis. What UT will not admit: All this violence and terrorist disappeared with the Oslo Accords. The Oslo Accords and a Palestinian state violate Likud objectives. To steal the West Bank, Likud needed to do three things:

1) Call for and get the murder of Rabin.

2) Do anything necessary to get more illegal settlements in the occupied territories - usually done by outright stealing of the best lands - in direct violation of International law, Israeli government assurances, Israeli law, and UN Resolutions.

3) Restart the intafada to justify more violence against arabs and to undermine any future peace initatives.

Likud got all three. Intafada II was started by Ariel Sharon and hundreds of his closest friends. They did many things to get the violence restarted including desecration of the Mosque on Temple Mount. The intafada is necessary to justify violence against Palestinians and to undermine everything created in the Oslo Accords. Anything that might stop the intafada - Sharon has done everything necessary to make sure that does not happen - while playing the mental midget George Jr with a mythical "roadmap".

UT refuses to even discuss these things let alone admit they are facts. He will never post pictures of how Israelis steal that rich land of orchard trees from a Palestinian farmer because UT is that personally biased. the Palestinian farmer must have been doing something wrong. Where are the pictures of Israeli solidiers killing children? And since Palestinian death rates are 3 and 8 times higher than Israelis, then a fair, unbiased man would show three to eight times more innocent and now dead Palestinians. UT never shows a dead, innocent Palestinian maybe because he does not believe there is such.

An Italian photographer was filming Israelis using live ammo in response to rock throwing. Israeli troops doing under orders of their commander what Israel said they do not do. So the Israeli soldiers shot and killed that Italian cameraman (sounds just like the *accidental* attack on the USS Liberty when Sharon's troops may have been massacring Egyptian POWs). Would UT put up such a picture. Of course not. He even refuses to admit that Isreal is lead by a dichead. A man known to have massacred 5,000 Palestinian women and children. A man that UT admires - facts be damned.

UT does post as if an extremist Likud. He still maintains those aluminum tubes were for a nuclear weaspons program when every fact said otherwise. Just another bias that he cannot concede. But then people have the right to post nonsense emotions - facts be damned. UT has the right to post extremist, one side bias in favor is Israel. He should be responsible enough to admit how extreme his biases are. He should be responsible enough to admit that all current violence is just what Ariel Sharon and Likud wanted - for the greater glory of Pax Israel.

UT is the same person who said there is no difference between a Palestinian and any other Arab. They are all the same people only emphasizes a "them verses us" bias.

juju · 08-22-2003, 01:35 AM

jaguar · 08-22-2003, 01:37 AM

While the rest of this thread is largely pointless I hae to say, after review LGF is if not a hate site, pretty damn close.

Try some of these comments for siize.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/webl...ablus#comments

Hey look, they agree with dave!!

Quote:

It is not what needs to be done, what needs to be done is to give the PA 24 hours to start their civil war. If they refuse then we go to war with them. At the end of the war all leaders of the PA and Hamas etc., will be tried and hung. We will then spread their ashes on the Med.

The arabs that survive will be told to shut up and sit for 20 years before we even talk about some for of limited self government on a local level. As far as a PLO state it has gone the way of Rome, the third reich etc. Oh by the way if their is even a stone thrown on a Jew from village x then that village will be loaded up and sent to Jordan. We will then remove all signs of that village from the face of the earth.

Enough is Enough No More dead Jews

Because jews are more important than other human life.

quzah · 08-22-2003, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tw
UT refuses to even discuss these things let alone admit they are facts. He will never post pictures of how Israelis steal that rich land of orchard trees from a Palestinian farmer because UT is that personally biased.

Here's a more logical reason:

He probably doesn't post pictures of Isreal stealing land because... wait for it... It never makes the news!

You show me mainstream media coverage of this happening, with an interesting picture, and I bet it'll get posted. You know why you won't? Because it'll never happen. Mainstream media will never have said picture.

I doubt, but could be wrong, it happens, that there is some bias of why he won't post a picture of it. As stated, you'll never find a picture titled "Isralie grabs land!", because quite simply put, it isn't newsworthy.

I can see "Isralie tanks roll over Palestinian farm, set up shop", but, since nothing so huge happens, I really don't see it ever hitting the mainstream press.

Quote:

Originally posted by tw
Where are the pictures of Israeli solidiers killing children? And since Palestinian death rates are 3 and 8 times higher than Israelis, then a fair, unbiased man would show three to eight times more innocent and now dead Palestinians. UT never shows a dead, innocent Palestinian maybe because he does not believe there is such.

See above. The news does cover it, however, it usually doesn't have the same impact. Put aside your bias for a second and read this line:

Bob straps a bomb to himself, walks into a bar, and blows everyone up.

Now read this one:

Joe bombs a warehouse where Bobbilians were making weapons in retaliation to a suicide bombing.

Which one has a more sensationalist headline? You obviously have no idea how news media works. It is far more justifiable from the average person's perspective to get behind the actions of Joe as right, than it is to get behind Bob, who blows up a bar because he doesn't like the color of the building.

For that matter, you could reverse rolls and the exact same thing would happen. People would start villifying Israel if they started telling their people to suicide bomb everyone. Also, if the Palestinian people only ever attacked as a result (which is how it is portrayed by mass media) of said bombings, people would get behind their cause way way easier.

Quote:

Originally posted by tw
An Italian photographer was filming Israelis using live ammo in response to rock throwing. Israeli troops doing under orders of their commander what Israel said they do not do. So the Israeli soldiers shot and killed that Italian cameraman (sounds just like the *accidental* attack on the USS Liberty when Sharon's troops may have been massacring Egyptian POWs). Would UT put up such a picture. Of course not.

And American troops tanked a journalist to death (boom boom tank shells) because they were too fucking stupid to know that a video camera looks nothing at all like an RPG. Last I looked, it wasn't here either. So what exactly is your point?

Quote:

Originally posted by tw
He even refuses to admit that Isreal is lead by a dichead.

*snip*

UT is the same person who said there is no difference between a Palestinian and any other Arab. They are all the same people only emphasizes a "them verses us" bias.

And if he did admit his supposed bias, what then? Then you'd toot your own horn some more on how you are right. Quite frankly, I don't think anyone gives a shit. Or maybe it's just me.

Quzah.

Undertoad · 08-22-2003, 08:21 AM

Yes, Jag, LGF has a remarkably hateful comments section... as do we at times. LGF is a magnet for strong opinions and often hate, just like we would be if every thread here was on this topic.

IMO the guy who runs it is completely biased and he has sadly gone over the top with it. He used to be more reasonable. But he's also a remarkable repository of information not available elsewhere because he's so relentless.

Undertoad · 08-22-2003, 08:25 AM

Clarification for the ever-confused tw: my point about the nature of Palestinians was that a study showed they are pretty much genetically identical to Jews, not that they are "same as any other Arab". That point is pretty much irrelevant to anything, except that it underlines how the same people from the same land and the same grandfathers somehow managed to figure out how to divide and hate each other for no good reason.

Griff · 08-22-2003, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
...just like we would be if every thread here was on this topic.

That is a big reason to participate in or at least read the other threads on the site. If you focus on one argument, the guy you are debating becomes one dimensional, making him easy to hate. Throw a broader net and you'll get a more realistic view of where he's coming from. I've thrown some pretty heavy stones at UT on this very issue and he never lit into me. Participate more not less establish yourself and fight for your position.

OnyxCougar · 08-22-2003, 09:47 AM

Quote:

*snip*

UT refuses to even discuss these things let alone admit they are facts.

I've only been lurking for about a year now, but thus far, I have YET to see UT refuse to discuss a topic.

As far as I can tell, some folks *coughgoethiancough* are pissed that UT is posting pictures of Palestinian Suicide-bombers and NOT posting Isreali atrocities ON PURPOSE and take issue with the idea that a moderator of a community forum seems biased (a moderator? biased? GET OUT! Really? How could that be?).

My reply to all this foolishness is this: If you got pics of it, and you want em posted so badly, POST THEM YOURSELF. There is a thread on this site called "Quality Images" and if you are so hell-bent on getting the "other side" in to compensate for UT's bias**, then why don't YOU post some pics of the the big-bad Isreali atrocities? Meantime, stop yer whinin'.

I was taught that if you don't like something, do something about it. You can leave or take action, but quit yer (unimpressive, impotent and inefficacious) bitchin already.

**I think it's perfectly NORMAL for people to have biases, and I think UT should be COMMENDED for hosting a COMMUNITY that allows for ideas and opinions to be freely discussed, regardless of Political Correctness, Intelligence, or Asshole factor. So hat's off, UT. I still love you.

Undertoad · 08-22-2003, 10:37 AM

"And since Palestinian death rates are 3 and 8 times higher than Israelis, then a fair, unbiased man would show three to eight times more innocent and now dead Palestinians. UT never shows a dead, innocent Palestinian maybe because he does not believe there is such." -tw

Palestinian death rates related to the conflict are, according to Reuters, about twice as high as Israeli deaths. However, judging the situation by the body count is wrong.

In the IotD thread we are discussing, I have shown one dead Palestinian and one victim whose status we don't know.

The Reuters statistics will include the bomber, but if the child lives, not the child.

Sure there are innocent Pals killed in the conflict. I think the last time Israel blew up a car with bad guys in it, the bad guys' kids were also in the car. That's tragic and dumb, but letting the bad guys live didn't work too well either, and the bad guys cannot be allowed to use their families as human shields. Reuters will count them all.

quzah · 08-22-2003, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
I think the last time Israel blew up a car with bad guys in it, the bad guys' kids were also in the car. That's tragic and dumb, but letting the bad guys live didn't work too well either, and the bad guys cannot be allowed to use their families as human shields. Reuters will count them all.

There you go with your bias again! You're calling Palestinians "bad guys".

Quzah.

Undertoad · 08-22-2003, 11:30 AM

If I was really biased, I'd call the kids "bomblets".

(No smiley yet to say "inappropriate mix of horror and hilarity")

goethean · 08-22-2003, 11:48 AM

"biased"?

Try socio-pathic.

How would you respond to your children being called "bomblets"?

08-22-2003, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaguar
Hey look, they agree with dave!!

Hey look, you're a fuckin' retard!!

That's not at all what I said. I very clearly laid out what I believe has to happen, and I very clearly said that I didn't particularly want it to happen, but it's the only way to get peace.

Don't put words in my mouth.

08-22-2003, 12:24 PM

The "more Palestinians are killed by Israel than vice versa" myth has been torn apart on the Cellar before. If you remove suicide bombers and those that are attacking Israeli soldiers (which is kind of a dumb thing to do if you value your life), the number of innocent Palestinians killed by Israelis is lower than the number of innocent Israelis killed by Palestinian extremists.

Hubris Boy · 08-22-2003, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
If I was really biased, I'd call the kids "bomblets".

I prefer the more technically correct term: submunitions.

08-22-2003, 01:10 AM	#76
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,933	What is not bullshit - what is fact is that UT is completely one sided against Palestinians and for Israelis. What UT will not admit: All this violence and terrorist disappeared with the Oslo Accords. The Oslo Accords and a Palestinian state violate Likud objectives. To steal the West Bank, Likud needed to do three things: 1) Call for and get the murder of Rabin. 2) Do anything necessary to get more illegal settlements in the occupied territories - usually done by outright stealing of the best lands - in direct violation of International law, Israeli government assurances, Israeli law, and UN Resolutions. 3) Restart the intafada to justify more violence against arabs and to undermine any future peace initatives. Likud got all three. Intafada II was started by Ariel Sharon and hundreds of his closest friends. They did many things to get the violence restarted including desecration of the Mosque on Temple Mount. The intafada is necessary to justify violence against Palestinians and to undermine everything created in the Oslo Accords. Anything that might stop the intafada - Sharon has done everything necessary to make sure that does not happen - while playing the mental midget George Jr with a mythical "roadmap". UT refuses to even discuss these things let alone admit they are facts. He will never post pictures of how Israelis steal that rich land of orchard trees from a Palestinian farmer because UT is that personally biased. the Palestinian farmer must have been doing something wrong. Where are the pictures of Israeli solidiers killing children? And since Palestinian death rates are 3 and 8 times higher than Israelis, then a fair, unbiased man would show three to eight times more innocent and now dead Palestinians. UT never shows a dead, innocent Palestinian maybe because he does not believe there is such. An Italian photographer was filming Israelis using live ammo in response to rock throwing. Israeli troops doing under orders of their commander what Israel said they do not do. So the Israeli soldiers shot and killed that Italian cameraman (sounds just like the accidental attack on the USS Liberty when Sharon's troops may have been massacring Egyptian POWs). Would UT put up such a picture. Of course not. He even refuses to admit that Isreal is lead by a dichead. A man known to have massacred 5,000 Palestinian women and children. A man that UT admires - facts be damned. UT does post as if an extremist Likud. He still maintains those aluminum tubes were for a nuclear weaspons program when every fact said otherwise. Just another bias that he cannot concede. But then people have the right to post nonsense emotions - facts be damned. UT has the right to post extremist, one side bias in favor is Israel. He should be responsible enough to admit how extreme his biases are. He should be responsible enough to admit that all current violence is just what Ariel Sharon and Likud wanted - for the greater glory of Pax Israel. UT is the same person who said there is no difference between a Palestinian and any other Arab. They are all the same people only emphasizes a "them verses us" bias. Last edited by tw; 08-22-2003 at 01:25 AM.

08-22-2003, 01:35 AM	#77
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839

08-22-2003, 08:21 AM	#80
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Yes, Jag, LGF has a remarkably hateful comments section... as do we at times. LGF is a magnet for strong opinions and often hate, just like we would be if every thread here was on this topic. IMO the guy who runs it is completely biased and he has sadly gone over the top with it. He used to be more reasonable. But he's also a remarkable repository of information not available elsewhere because he's so relentless.

08-22-2003, 08:25 AM	#81
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Clarification for the ever-confused tw: my point about the nature of Palestinians was that a study showed they are pretty much genetically identical to Jews, not that they are "same as any other Arab". That point is pretty much irrelevant to anything, except that it underlines how the same people from the same land and the same grandfathers somehow managed to figure out how to divide and hate each other for no good reason.

08-22-2003, 10:37 AM	#84
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	"And since Palestinian death rates are 3 and 8 times higher than Israelis, then a fair, unbiased man would show three to eight times more innocent and now dead Palestinians. UT never shows a dead, innocent Palestinian maybe because he does not believe there is such." -tw Palestinian death rates related to the conflict are, according to Reuters, about twice as high as Israeli deaths. However, judging the situation by the body count is wrong. In the IotD thread we are discussing, I have shown one dead Palestinian and one victim whose status we don't know. The Reuters statistics will include the bomber, but if the child lives, not the child. Sure there are innocent Pals killed in the conflict. I think the last time Israel blew up a car with bad guys in it, the bad guys' kids were also in the car. That's tragic and dumb, but letting the bad guys live didn't work too well either, and the bad guys cannot be allowed to use their families as human shields. Reuters will count them all.

08-22-2003, 11:30 AM	#86
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	If I was really biased, I'd call the kids "bomblets". (No smiley yet to say "inappropriate mix of horror and hilarity")

08-22-2003, 11:48 AM	#87
goethean ethics evolve. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 60	"biased"? Try socio-pathic. How would you respond to your children being called "bomblets"?

08-22-2003, 12:24 PM	#89
dave Guest Posts: n/a	The "more Palestinians are killed by Israel than vice versa" myth has been torn apart on the Cellar before. If you remove suicide bombers and those that are attacking Israeli soldiers (which is kind of a dumb thing to do if you value your life), the number of innocent Palestinians killed by Israelis is lower than the number of innocent Israelis killed by Palestinian extremists.

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