The Cellar  

Go Back   The Cellar > Main > Politics

Politics Where we learn not to think less of others who don't share our views

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-12-2017, 10:03 PM   #136
BigV
Goon Squad Leader
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 27,063
we have professional standards for medical doctors who are obligated to seek the best for the patient and advise the patient accordingly.

we have professional standards for lawyers who have an obligation to their clients *first*.

these are a couple areas where if you're seeking professional advice, you are probably dealing with something serious, or potentially serious. your finances are serious or potentially serious. Why not have similar standards?

Let me turn the question around. Explain why it is better for the financial advisers to be permitted to put your interests behind their own? the term snake oil comes to mind. Caveat emptor? Let the market decide? Why have any regulations regarding truth in lending for example? That's just a big fucking hassle. an unnecessary expense.

as for widening the problem to everyone, lemme ask you. have you yourself been subject to terrorists violence? Probably not, I hope not. Yet, you have to go through aaaalll the bullshit, with the rest of us, for a chance to reduce risk. Why is this a good idea? Widen the problem to include everyone. That's crap. You don't have to seek the advice, you don't have to fly, you don't have to get sick or arrested.

But... when you do. you want the people taking care of you, advising you, to be looking out for you first, don'cha? I do.

edited to add:
1--fixed typo
2--wow, serious tailposting, I missed the intervening 20 posts, give or take. this was due to just opening the thread to the most recent unread post, then I posted. then I saw my post and aaaaalll the others I failed to notice on the next page when I readthenposted. oops, sorry.
__________________
Be Just and Fear Not.

Last edited by BigV; 04-12-2017 at 10:45 PM. Reason: 'parently, had more to say.
BigV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2017, 10:30 PM   #137
Flint
Snowflake
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Dystopia
Posts: 13,136
no. fuck ut and fuck his bullshit opinion.
__________________
******************
There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there
it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your
expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever
gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio
Flint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2017, 10:32 PM   #138
Flint
Snowflake
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Dystopia
Posts: 13,136
insufferable, preachy, know-it-all cunt
"my tunnel vision gives me superpowers!"
__________________
******************
There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there
it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your
expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever
gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio
Flint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2017, 10:53 PM   #139
BigV
Goon Squad Leader
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 27,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
You know, I've never wanted to discuss stuff less with people. Have fun storming the castle, you win I'm out.
Good idea, you had a losing hand...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
Financial planners are under-regulated? Here is a "problem" that ONLY affects the upper middle class. It's not exactly the 1%, but it's the 10%-35% who care about this, but good on protecting them and stuff, they are the new Democratic Party after all. Since they are the electorate, they are going to need to be focused on, in the next few decades. Well not "need". They don't "need" but sure enough they will get attention!

You got a financial planner Biggie? Corporate or independent?
and you played it badly.



Still I am interesting in hearing your defense of the suspension of the rule. I'm interested in hearing a rationale for why it's a better idea for the public to have the lower "suitability standard" in place of the higher "fiduciary standard".

If you come back and play, I'll share my marbles with you.


ok, that was dirtier than I thought at first. srsly, though, if you got an argument to make, I'm open to hearing it.
__________________
Be Just and Fear Not.
BigV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2017, 11:02 PM   #140
Happy Monkey
I think this line's mostly filler.
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 13,575
The investopedia article does mention a drawback where smaller firms may have to shut down or sell themselves to other firms, due to compliance costs.

Of course, some of those will be doing so due to not being able to scam their customers anymore, so I'll shed no tears for them. But there may well be honest firms that have some problem with the required paperwork.

Just being devil's advocate here; I'm fully in favor of implementing the rule. But that's what the Republicans will be referring to when they say the rule will diminish customer choice.
__________________
_________________
|...............| We live in the nick of times.
| Len 17, Wid 3 |
|_______________| [pics]
Happy Monkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2017, 06:34 AM   #141
Griff
still says videotape
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 26,813
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post
When deciding if a federal regulation, which of course applies to everyone, is good or bad, should you only be concerned with the people you know it affects right now, and not the people it affects you don't know about, or people who may be affected later?
I haven't been following this but when the Republicans monetize privatize Social Security would everyone be effected? The new privatizations, as in education, have been less about saving money for taxpayers and more about channeling tax dollars up the income ladder, trickle up economics if you will.
__________________
If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Griff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2017, 09:06 AM   #142
henry quirk
maskless: yesterday, today, tomorrow
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,162
regulation, or...

...buyer beware.

In the first, some one else protects you.

In the second, 'you' protect you.

Best advice: if you got money to gamble away, throw the dice yourself.
henry quirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2017, 09:53 AM   #143
Happy Monkey
I think this line's mostly filler.
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 13,575
You protect you in both cases. With regulation, it's easier to do so, and you have a mechanism of redress if they cheat you anyways.
__________________
_________________
|...............| We live in the nick of times.
| Len 17, Wid 3 |
|_______________| [pics]
Happy Monkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2017, 10:14 AM   #144
henry quirk
maskless: yesterday, today, tomorrow
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,162
"You protect you in both cases."

Difference is: in the first, when some one else is doin' the defending, that some one is usually the one settin' up the paremeters. In the second, you decide. Now, mebbe the other guy has your best interests in mind, mebbe he doesn't. Always, though, you'll have your best interests in mind.

I simply think you're a better defender of you than the other guy can ever be.

Or, you're supposed to be.

#

"With regulation, it's easier to do so,"

Easier is not always preferable.

#

"and you have a mechanism of redress if they cheat you anyways."

Even in an unregulated world you have the option for redress...just have to be willing and able to get dirty, is all.

And really, that's what it's about, isn't it?

Some folks can get dirty, but too many can't or won't (so nobody gets to).

Reminds me of a private back-n-forth I had with Lamp way back, he favoring regulations (of a sort), me advocating for a d.i.y. approach, with my own experiences to back that approach up.

He didn't talk to me much after that.
henry quirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2017, 10:24 AM   #145
Happy Monkey
I think this line's mostly filler.
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 13,575
No, you still decide in both cases.
__________________
_________________
|...............| We live in the nick of times.
| Len 17, Wid 3 |
|_______________| [pics]
Happy Monkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2017, 10:24 AM   #146
xoxoxoBruce
The future is unwritten
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff View Post
I haven't been following this but when the Republicans monetize privatize Social Security would everyone be effected? The new privatizations, as in education, have been less about saving money for taxpayers and more about channeling tax dollars up the income ladder, trickle up economics if you will.
I agree, it's Reagan's trickle UP plan, redux.

Quote:
Originally Posted by henry quirk View Post
He didn't talk to me much after that.
So it was you, I thought it was me.
__________________
The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.
xoxoxoBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2017, 11:21 AM   #147
Flint
Snowflake
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Dystopia
Posts: 13,136
Nice plan, henry, you just roll up your shirtsleeves and give the guy running your 401k a fat lip? Turns out we don't need any laws, about anything at all!
__________________
******************
There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there
it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your
expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever
gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio

Last edited by Flint; 04-13-2017 at 11:27 AM.
Flint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2017, 12:32 PM   #148
henry quirk
maskless: yesterday, today, tomorrow
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,162
"No, you still decide in both cases."

No, only in one.
henry quirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2017, 12:33 PM   #149
henry quirk
maskless: yesterday, today, tomorrow
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,162
"401k"

I don't have one of those.
henry quirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2017, 12:33 PM   #150
henry quirk
maskless: yesterday, today, tomorrow
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,162
"Turns out we don't need any laws, about anything at all!"

Hyperbole.
henry quirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:21 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.