Releasing the photos of the Hussein boys

[Tobiasly]

Shortly after the war started, Al Jazeera showed some pictures of some dead American soldiers on TV. We called them to task on it, saying it was against Geneva Conventions to do so. Pretty much the same thing happened after the gruesome deaths of those soldiers in Somalia.

So how is this any different? Aren't we setting a bad precedent by showing dead enemies all over TV? I realize it is necessary to prove to the Iraqis that these dudes are history, but surely there could be a better way?

[BryanD]

I think the primary difference is, when our guys died, no one doubted (contested?) it.

[juju]

Didn't the Iraqi citizens say that they wouldn't believe it unless they saw it for themselves?

[xoxoxoBruce]

They were not soldiers in combat.
They were John Dillinger coming out of the theater.
And their cousin was the lady in red.

[Undertoad]

Intent is a part of law, and it's easy to make the case that this was the right thing to do from the standpoint of intent.

Frankly I didn't quite get the problem with showing the US POWs. Sure it's a war crime to humiliate, but humiliation is nothing, it's more important that they not face torture or death.

And frankly, although I avoided the Daniel Pearl tape and don't care for things like Faces of Death, I can watch those two assholes dead all day and love it. If there was a "Uday and Qusay Dead" 24 hour cable channel, I would have it on right now. Seeing the videos of them while they were alive is far more gross and offensive.

[elSicomoro]

Weird situation all around...

I understand why the US did it. They saw immediate skepticism and wanted to prove to the Iraqis that Odai and Qusai (or however the hell you want to spell their names) were dead.

I don't mind seeing the pictures of dead people...but given the Geneva Convention, it shouldn't have been done in this case. But the Bush administration will probably mention something about "illegal combatants," tell us that the discussion is over (like your mom or dad might have done to you back in the day), and then it disappears.

The US has pretty much proved that it will do what it has to do. The Bush administration said they would come over and remove Saddam...and voila! (more or less) But the US seems to be simply unbelievable...untrustable...for a combination of reasons.

Bottom line: No win situation for the US...they should have just said, "They're dead, now shut the fuck up before we send your civilization back 25,000 more years."

[xoxoxoBruce]

Our Gumint showed Iraq the pictures for credability reasons .
The press showed us the pictures for monetary reasons.
Who's the bigger culprit?

[juju]

The thing that pisses me off most is that before the photos had been released, and this was all unconfirmed, all the news organizations were saying things like, "We've heard reports that Uday and Qusay may be dead."

MAY be dead? MAY??? What the fuck? Since when is guesswork news? Is there something wrong with waiting for confirmation before you run with a story? I mean, really, why the hell don't I just read the inquirer?

[elSicomoro]

That's The National Enquirer, not to be confused with The Philadelphia Inquirer.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Juju, it's the old "breaking story, film at 11" game. If they don't say something, they'll be remembered as the one that didn't.

[tw]

In the grocery store is a composite Time-Life book of pictures from the war. In the distance, a US convoy moves down a road. In the foreground a dead Iraqi soldier, violently killed, with a tortured expression on his face, and it quite clear who this man was. Geneva violation?

Been waiting for weeks for someone, anyone, in any forum, to complain about this Geneva Convention violation. Most certainly not the George Jr administration since human rights only need be honored upon Americans. But what surprised me is the numbers of us - we - people who would complain about dead Americans from an ambushed convoy, but not complain about same picture of a dead Iraqi soldier. This, my friends, is the same emotion that creates racism. The double standard. That Iraqi soldier deserved the same complaining from those who complained that Al Jezzera showed dead American bodies. Double standards that make me embarrased of some of our peers.

Lets see the dead bodies in car accidents complete with the facts why that body was killed, in gruesome detail - so we learn. And shoot those who watch only for the thrill OR who are appalled at the carnage. They are both an enemy of truth because they are emotional.

I still want to see those dead American bodies from that ambush. That was the Best Evidence. Evidence desired even more as we discover how the event was twisted into lies in Washington. And I want to see the Hussein Bros. so that lies by our administration would be more difficult. Stop the emotional foolishness and lets see the facts - blunt and bloody.

For that matter, I am not so sure that the US military attack on Al Jazzera in Baghdad was an accident - because the facts are not being exposed in bloody detail. But American not complaining about that dead Iraqi soldier in that Time-Life coffee table book - demonstrates how many American have a double standard - are patriotic Americans only when it is convenient.

[Undertoad]

But what surprised me is the numbers of us - we - people who would complain about dead Americans from an ambushed convoy, but not complain about same picture of a dead Iraqi soldier.

In a single sentence, you've summarized the emotional and intellectual disconnect that will lose the the 2004 election for the persistently anti-war Democrats.

[xoxoxoBruce]

TW, I was pissed about the pictures of the dead Americans, not because they showed them but that the wounds looked like they had been executed. You know, single hole in the middle of the forehead.
I was glad to see the live ones on TV. One, because it showed they were alive. Two, because I figured, from the same pictures, the Gumint could tell even more.

[Undertoad]

But pointedly to the topic, the original Baghdad blogger Salam Pax puts it in perspective:

http://dearraed.blogspot.com/2003_07...04124855867747

He wrote this before the photos and videos were released:

It is so easy, all it takes is to show us the friggin’ corpses. They do have them. Someone did see them and when asked why it wasn’t sown to the public they came up with the moral issues stuff. Habibi it didn’t bother you that all those Iraqis, Americans and British are being killed for dubious reasons, so why suddenly become so squeamish? Give the Images to Jazeera, moral issues have never stopped them from showing gruesome images, let them do your dirty work. All I care about is knowing, seeing, being 100% doubt free and that press conference proved nothing. An Iraqi journalist stopped me at the door of that hall and asked me whether I am American media (this happens from hanging around NY Times people too much), I told him I wasn’t but I could put him in touch, he said he was a journalist with IMN (Iraqi Media Network, the coalition sponsored media tool) he said that he wanted to make sure that the American journalists understand that Iraqis have huge doubts and if we would go out on the street we would be told that the whole thing in Mosul was a farce. Actually I was on the street and did ask that question. And people do need proof. The Americans just fucked up. Just like they waited too long after the fall of Baghdad to show the Iraqis they have things under control they have fucked up again by first making the decision to kill the idiots and then not give us clear proof of their death.

[Undertoad]

And the other side, from Afghanistan via Instapundit.

http://www.instapundit.com/archives/010614.php

It’s not all questions; often the Afghans offer surprisingly astute observations and advice to the Americans on its handling of the war on terror. “The naked bodies of Uday and Qusay should never have been shown by the U.S. It gives them a bad reputation in the Islamic world,” says one as we scrutinize the mortician’s indecorously draped version of the corpses. His friends concur. Indeed, the televising of the Husseins remains is not only widely unpopular here; it’s considered a terrible tactical blunder, even among the most pro-American Afghans.