Mel Gibson's new movie: 'Apocalypto' - Page 4

Tonchi · 12-31-2006, 01:35 AM

... or one WIFE away

piercehawkeye45 · 12-31-2006, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

I guess... the thing is, based only on their lifestyle, they don't make that much.
Meaning, they live like they are rich, but it all goes into their lifestyle and their production... very few actually save any or invest any, most are one job away from broke.

God, that just sickens me. I love how our kid's role models are possibly the stupidest people on the planet. I'm optimistic for the future.

Tonchi · 12-31-2006, 10:20 AM

It is a PARENT's role to guide a child to the more productive role models, and anybody who stands bye indifferently while the media does it for them is equally to blame. I have read numerous essays on how there are no real heroes in contemporary society, just people who are immitated because they are always visible. Wars used to be our hero mills, but with the rise of materialism and the media, Paris Hilton is what we get. The poor and stupid choose media figures who appear to have all the luxuries they do not while the ones admired by intellectuals and people who can make a positive difference in our world are never mentioned because they would be considered "boring" by the lowest common denominator.

piercehawkeye45 · 12-31-2006, 10:58 AM

Good rant Tonchi, you really hit the nail on the head.

One problem I see throughout kids today is that self-improvement is looked down upon. If you ask twenty teenagers if they read or not I guarantee that ten of them will remark how they "don't read" and seem proud of themselves for it. This type of attitude is horrible for America's future. I don't care if you don't like reading, but the people that look down upon reading because it "isn't cool" are complete idiots; these are also the kids that think they are rebellious for drinking (wake up call, 90%+ of teenagers drink). Throughout high school you still hear the grade school remark of "I didn't study" like they didn’t care what they got. Is it that hard to admit that you studied, or do you not want to look like a nerd? I mean, someone who will make tenfold of you in twenty years is not someone you should put down. I won't even get into how it is bad to improve yourself physically.

Tonchi · 01-01-2007, 01:43 AM

I like the statement which has been attributed to Bill Gates: "Don't be rough on the nerds; someday, if you are lucky enough to have a job, you will be working for one of them."

xoxoxoBruce · 01-01-2007, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonchi

The poor and stupid choose media figures who appear to have all the luxuries they do not....

I wish that were true, but from what I've seen, the media figures have an even larger following than that.

Ideally and historically, when heros are heros for their deeds and accomplishments, the hero worshipers aspire to improve their own deeds and accomplishments.

Currently, media figures are heros for the "bling" they accumulate and their "money for nothing" lifestyle. This inspires the hero worshipers to want accumulate "bling" as a measure of achievement. To do the same as their heros...riches without work.... usually leads to either crime or frustration driven antisocial behavior.

Role models and mentors have a huge impact....even, maybe especially, bad ones.

piercehawkeye45 · 01-01-2007, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Currently, media figures are heros for the "bling" they accumulate and their "money for nothing" lifestyle. This inspires the hero worshipers to want accumulate "bling" as a measure of achievement. To do the same as their heros...riches without work.... usually leads to either crime or frustration driven antisocial behavior.

No saving for the future is shown, so people tend to spend all their money right away and have to live paycheck to paycheck instead of saving money and having a decent living in ten years. A change in role models could do wonders for America, a lot more than most would expect, including myself.

01-01-2007, 03:50 PM

Parents choose.

xoxoxoBruce · 01-01-2007, 08:14 PM

Yes, parents are paramount.
But in the rebellious teenage years, when they look to their peers and the media for direction, it would be better if there were real heros to choose from.
Hopefully when they get older and stabilize, the parents example will surface.
Of course then we have the parents that are dazzled by the wrong things.

Aliantha · 01-01-2007, 08:20 PM

I hope to still be a role model for my children when they're teenagers.

Speaking for myself, when I was a teenager, there were a few years in there where I found my parents to be very uncool, but when I finally grew up, I went back to thinking they were great.

piercehawkeye45 · 01-01-2007, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha

I hope to still be a role model for my children when they're teenagers.

Speaking for myself, when I was a teenager, there were a few years in there where I found my parents to be very uncool, but when I finally grew up, I went back to thinking they were great.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

I want my kids to be independent and able to make a decision without needing peer or authority approval.

yesman065 · 01-01-2007, 09:40 PM

I just had a wonderful conversation with my 16 yr old son about role models this afternoon while we were installing the base moulding in the dining room. He made some comments about how well we get along compared to some of his friends with their parents. I am so proud of him! What a great son I have - even after all he has been through with the divorce and all.

Aliantha · 01-01-2007, 10:45 PM

Some parents do a great job yesman.

CaliforniaMama · 01-01-2007, 11:11 PM

Part of what can make the dynamic between kids and parents work is having multi-generational relationships. Robert Bly wrote a book called "Sibling Society" that talks about how each generation is starting to look more and more at their peers for advice on how to live life. Elders and youngers are becoming less significant in the greater life picture.

When we maintain relationships with elders and have multiple generations involved in our regular, everyday relationships, we develop "vertical" support rather than just "horizontal."

For instance, in our super-close circle of friends we have people who range from 90's to 20's and then teen cousins, so our kids are learning how to have relationships with people of all ages. I've seen this in my cousin's family as well. They still do things as a family unit even though the kids are all teens. They even come to my little kid's birthday parties.

The teens will have real-life conversations with grown-ups because to them grown-ups are real people to them. I'm seeing this with my own kids. They do not seem to be identifying solely because of their age. They'll interact with anyone who is interesting or who will give them the time of day (and not dismiss them because they are short).

xoxoxoBruce · 01-02-2007, 01:16 PM

There is much value in being able to say, Goodnight John-Boy.

12-31-2006, 01:35 AM	#46
Tonchi Victim of gravity Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hiding in plain sight Posts: 1,412	... or one WIFE away __________________ Everything you've ever heard about Fresno is true.

12-31-2006, 10:20 AM	#48
Tonchi Victim of gravity Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hiding in plain sight Posts: 1,412	It is a PARENT's role to guide a child to the more productive role models, and anybody who stands bye indifferently while the media does it for them is equally to blame. I have read numerous essays on how there are no real heroes in contemporary society, just people who are immitated because they are always visible. Wars used to be our hero mills, but with the rise of materialism and the media, Paris Hilton is what we get. The poor and stupid choose media figures who appear to have all the luxuries they do not while the ones admired by intellectuals and people who can make a positive difference in our world are never mentioned because they would be considered "boring" by the lowest common denominator. __________________ Everything you've ever heard about Fresno is true.

01-01-2007, 01:43 AM	#50
Tonchi Victim of gravity Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hiding in plain sight Posts: 1,412	I like the statement which has been attributed to Bill Gates: "Don't be rough on the nerds; someday, if you are lucky enough to have a job, you will be working for one of them." __________________ Everything you've ever heard about Fresno is true.

01-01-2007, 08:14 PM	#54
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Yes, parents are paramount. But in the rebellious teenage years, when they look to their peers and the media for direction, it would be better if there were real heros to choose from. Hopefully when they get older and stabilize, the parents example will surface. Of course then we have the parents that are dazzled by the wrong things. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

01-01-2007, 08:20 PM	#55
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	I hope to still be a role model for my children when they're teenagers. Speaking for myself, when I was a teenager, there were a few years in there where I found my parents to be very uncool, but when I finally grew up, I went back to thinking they were great. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

12-31-2006, 10:58 AM	#49
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	Good rant Tonchi, you really hit the nail on the head. One problem I see throughout kids today is that self-improvement is looked down upon. If you ask twenty teenagers if they read or not I guarantee that ten of them will remark how they "don't read" and seem proud of themselves for it. This type of attitude is horrible for America's future. I don't care if you don't like reading, but the people that look down upon reading because it "isn't cool" are complete idiots; these are also the kids that think they are rebellious for drinking (wake up call, 90%+ of teenagers drink). Throughout high school you still hear the grade school remark of "I didn't study" like they didn’t care what they got. Is it that hard to admit that you studied, or do you not want to look like a nerd? I mean, someone who will make tenfold of you in twenty years is not someone you should put down. I won't even get into how it is bad to improve yourself physically.

01-01-2007, 03:50 PM	#53
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Parents choose.

01-01-2007, 09:40 PM	#57
yesman065 Banned - Self Imposed Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,847	I just had a wonderful conversation with my 16 yr old son about role models this afternoon while we were installing the base moulding in the dining room. He made some comments about how well we get along compared to some of his friends with their parents. I am so proud of him! What a great son I have - even after all he has been through with the divorce and all.

01-01-2007, 10:45 PM	#58
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Some parents do a great job yesman. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

01-01-2007, 11:11 PM	#59
CaliforniaMama I wonder . . . Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: The Left Coast, a pretty good place to be. Posts: 1,278	Part of what can make the dynamic between kids and parents work is having multi-generational relationships. Robert Bly wrote a book called "Sibling Society" that talks about how each generation is starting to look more and more at their peers for advice on how to live life. Elders and youngers are becoming less significant in the greater life picture. When we maintain relationships with elders and have multiple generations involved in our regular, everyday relationships, we develop "vertical" support rather than just "horizontal." For instance, in our super-close circle of friends we have people who range from 90's to 20's and then teen cousins, so our kids are learning how to have relationships with people of all ages. I've seen this in my cousin's family as well. They still do things as a family unit even though the kids are all teens. They even come to my little kid's birthday parties. The teens will have real-life conversations with grown-ups because to them grown-ups are real people to them. I'm seeing this with my own kids. They do not seem to be identifying solely because of their age. They'll interact with anyone who is interesting or who will give them the time of day (and not dismiss them because they are short). __________________ Take time for silence. You never know what you might hear.

01-02-2007, 01:16 PM	#60
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	There is much value in being able to say, Goodnight John-Boy. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

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