What if you didn't have a name?

[Clodfobble]

It's really a shame you don't live in Texas, Catwoman. I could introduce you to my brother, and the two of you could just go off together and talk to each other for eternity.

[jaguar]

Well Morpheus, I follow you, I think you need to read some Carl Jung.

[Catwoman]

Nice thought Clod - why not introduce him to the Cellar?

Jung is concerned with the mind, the different levels of psych-consciousness, not the true wider self. The self does not exist within the mind, the mind exists within the self. Jung's philosophies are linear - they acknowledge the power of accumulation - how the unconscious consists of components/fragments - but this is still dealing only with the surface.

He is right in his assessment of the collective unconscious, he just made the mistake of trying to find more, trying to explain it in terms of thought. This can never be understood with thought, it simply is.

All philosophers are such not by merit of thought but of realisation. You cannot 'think' your way into becoming a philosopher. You just are. It is a pointless thing to study.

All I am concerned with is now. All of my words are old. But if you can see the space between the words you may have already answered your own question.

[jaguar]

Well I did follow you.

Learn to recognise these forms for what they are. And remember that they can only happen NOW, not in the past or in the future. The computer in front of you, the tree in the garden, your best friend or lover. They are all just forms.

Forms of what exactly?

[Clodfobble]

Nice thought Clod - why not introduce him to the Cellar?

Because he doesn't have internet access--he currently lives with my mother (after she already kicked him out once, then my father kicked him out, now he's back at her house,) hasn't had a job in almost a year, has never had one for longer than 9 months, and has never paid his own rent or car payment in his life. He owns four electric guitars and a full drum set, but never plays them. He takes at least a roll of film a day on his $500+ camera, but he refuses to try to sell them or get them put in any art shows. And he loooooooves to philosophize, and tell you why your life is meaningless.

[Catwoman]

Don't follow me, lead yourself.

You are trying to understand this with thought. Maybe I am being too cryptic, I am not trying to confuse you. I just want you to see for yourself.

I cannot describe the word 'forms' in physical terms - what do you want to hear? That they consist of rapidly metamorphosing matter - a result of electrokinetic forces and tricks of the light? Maybe, if that helps you to visualise it. Science will answer that question much better than I can.

The point is that form is transient. It is always changing, and often short-lived. A form can take the shape of a physical thing or being, and it can also be emotional. Your depression is a form, as is your happiness. Neither will last for that long. If you can see that these are all merely forms that come and go, you can begin to enjoy the present for what it is. It's just now, nothing more, nothing less.

Is this starting to come together?

[Catwoman]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Because he doesn't have internet access--he currently lives with my mother (after she already kicked him out once, then my father kicked him out, now he's back at her house,) hasn't had a job in almost a year, has never had one for longer than 9 months, and has never paid his own rent or car payment in his life. He owns four electric guitars and a full drum set, but never plays them. He takes at least a roll of film a day on his $500+ camera, but he refuses to try to sell them or get them put in any art shows. And he loooooooves to philosophize, and tell you why your life is meaningless.

Would you be more inclined to accept this criticism - what you see as a criticism - if he had worked all his life and achieved 'success'? Is he the pot calling the kettle?

His perceived success (or lack thereof) has nothing to do with him. Whatever material routes he has and will pass through in his life, whether there is wealth or poverty, a career or a carer - none of this has any relevance to who he is. That's the point. He just is.

Maybe he has misinterpreted philosophy and sees it as another means to define himself. So he hasn't - on the surface - achieved much in this world: that's ok, because (he thinks) 'I'm a philosopher'. This is no different to defining your sense of self in any other way.

This is not what I am trying to do here. In fact I am not trying to do anything. I am typing and words are coming out that are the truth. No, they're not truth, but they point to the truth.

[jaguar]

Now I see what you're trying to say.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I want what she's smoking. Oh never mind, I have to go back to the real world.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I want what she's smoking.

Well, it is a bit on the esoteric side, but I like it. Makes my brain hurt. Thanks, Catwoman, for keeping Cellarites everywhere awake at night!

[alphageek31337]

One of the first (and, as spiritual progress goes, worst) things advanced minds do is immediately try to seperate itself from the environment surrounding it. I refer you to Robert Bakker's novel, <i>Raptor Red</i>, where lacking any formal language with which to identify itself, the main character simply refers to herself as "Red", due to a red patch on her snout. Advanced minds are always categorical like this. The first thing they do is split the world into "Me" and "Not Me". Then, everything in the "Not Me" category is split into "Good for Me" and "Bad for Me". It's this kind of categorization, essential to our physical and egotistical survival, that prevents human beings from feeling the connectedness that does, indeed, exist. You *are not* a unique and beautiful snowflake, standing alone, your survival independent of those around you. You *are* unique in the sense that a liver is different from a kidney is different from a heart. We're all part of this big, bumbling organism, being left alone to experience the societal evuivalent of adolescence all alone. If we, as a species, can remove the barrier of ego that seperates us from each other, we'll be much better off.

Brianna, apology accepted. And I realize I was out there myself with all my claws and teeth, so I hope you will accept my apology, as well. I am curious about just one thing, and I don't mean this question to be argumentative, I am merely curious. As I finally understand it, you worked as an RN for 25 years. Surely you had private disability insurance as a part of your benefits package?

Now back to your question, Cat. You and everyone else have made some excellent points. Cat, you seem to be asking about what makes up the essence of the human soul. I think that on a certain level, that is something which only each individual can define for herself. The soul or spirit of a human being is an elusive thing at best, difficult to pin down with mere words.

Who am I, really? If you look into my eyes, you will see the answer reflected back at you there.

I am
you
are
We are
God
is
me.

Lest this be misunderstood, I hasten to add that I do not personally believe I have supernatural powers and am the ruler of the universe (this should be obvious, but I know this gang well enough to understand that some devil's advocate would love to jump in there and make this accusation).

When I speak of the spirit or that of God (call it whatever is most pleasing to you) which resides in us all, I am talking about this:

The awe we feel when looking up at the stars on a clear summer night or when we come across the beauty of a meadow of wildflowers or the vastness of the ocean or the great mountain ranges of the West.

The tug we feel at our heart when we look at our child or the person who is our partner in life, or even a little 4 year old girl whom we've never seen before and will never see again, but there's something about how she runs in the park as we watch, her face turned up toward the sun and her smile of pure innocent joy.

The compassion we feel when we see the suffering of a friend or a woman on the 6:00 news who has experienced some terrible tragedy. Our hearts ached when we saw 9/11 going on one morning on our TV sets, and it didn't matter if we lived on the East coast or the West or knew someone who worked at the World Trade Center or not, something in our hearts went out to the innocent people killled or injured in such a terrible way.

The moments which describe our essence are precisely the same moments when we let go of our small everyday selves and become part of the greater Self - when we love truely, have compassion for others, are awed by the beauty of this world we live in.

Each one of us, without exception, is a most precious soul; created in the image of God, quite simply because taken as a whole, we ARE God. AS Joseph Campbell said, eternity is in this very moment. We create our lives right now in the present because that is all the time we will ever have. With our each action we can help to create "this earthly paradise" or this living hell. It is up to the spirit in each one of us which one we choose.

[Catwoman]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I want what she's smoking. Oh never mind, I have to go back to the real world.

The 'real world' you speak of is everything you recognise with your senses. I am not advocating moving away from this reality - trying to pretend the trees don't exist or you don't have to go back to work. In fact, the opposite is true. The more you are aware of reality, of now, whether that may be the hot cup of coffee you're holding or the rising anger at the way your boss just spoke to you - all these things are real, and the worst thing to do would be to try to 'rise above it', detach or disassociate yourself. This kind of 'spirituality' I have no time for. All I am saying is to recognise truth - the boss, the coffee cup, and understand it is just a form. It does not have any relevance to 'yourself'. Instead of relating events to your personalised sense of self, try to see them as part of a much greater living 'whole'.

Lets say you are attracted to someone and they are not interested. You will view their rejection as self-defining - either by entering a brief depression/insecurity to strengthen the idea of yourself as useless and unattractive, or taking it on the shoulders and not really minding to strengthen the idea of yourself as nonchalant and carefree. Either way you use the event to define yourself. Instead, see the event for what it is, see yourself perpetuating these patterns, and enjoy the new form that is emerging. I sometimes find this hard to explain, yet it is so simple.

Originally Posted by alphageek31337

We're all part of this big, bumbling organism, being left alone to experience the societal evuivalent of adolescence all alone. If we, as a species, can remove the barrier of ego that seperates us from each other, we'll be much better off.

You understand, I think.

Originally Posted by marichiko

Cat, you seem to be asking about what makes up the essence of the human soul.

No. I am saying the 'human soul' is truth. That will become clear once you live within it.

Originally Posted by marichiko

We create our lives right now in the present because that is all the time we will ever have.

Yes, that is the point. All we have is now. In now you will find the answer to every question you have ever asked.

Originally Posted by Catwoman

No. I am saying the 'human soul' is truth. That will become clear once you live within it.

I agree that the human soul is truth, but it is a truth which many people have great difficulty attempting to define. Your point about defining ourselves by the reactions of others around us is one that is well made. If my lover rejects me, that does not mean I should define myself as unloveable. The boss's bad day does not define my spirit. On a more mundane level, however, if I find that people constantly make the same criticism of me, say, "You always let people take advantage of you," just as an example, I would say that this consistent feedback is something we should consider as we try to shape our behavior to lead more fulfilling lives than we did in the past. But I don't think that is your real point here.

I think it takes a real effort toward consistent awareness to fully live within one's own soul. It is all too easy to fall back into the pattern of reacting, rather than being. I have moments, even hours when I feel that I live from my soul, and then someone does something which hurts or upsets me, and I'm back to reacting again. Its a journey, not a destination.

[Joe Faux]

Perhaps I've been working in the technical field too long.

Names are words used to identify people, places, or things. They are tools within a language to help us, as effectively and quickly as possible, communicate with one another. The words and structure of language were defined using the joint experiences of folks long gone now.

Acronyms are a good modern day example of our need to communicate quickly with as little effort as possible.

My name is used as a tool to immediately refer to my physical presence. It was defined by my parents, in cooperation with their own ego, as a way to refer to “the baby.” I continue to use this label because, by the time I grew aware I could change it, it had grown on me. Just as anyone of my other experiences, it has helped to shape me as a person. However, it cannot describe me any better than the cover of a book could describe it's contents.

If I were to describe my essence, I would use tools of language, to describe myself based upon as a series of facts, personal truths, and opinions. Others would use similar tools to describe me using their observations. (Most times, these two descriptions will hardly ever match which would cause its own problem in our need to communicate.)

(By the way, we hardly have the patience to refer to ourselves even if the name is too long. Mary Jane = MJ. Can you imagine the acronym to describe ourself?)

A bit off topic... are we even capable to fully comprehend our own essence? I've forgotten so much since conception... some of it must have been important.

I'm still trying to wrap my brain around “living in one's soul.” My brain has filtered this into, “strive to be aware of life's details.” Much like some books I've read, I'd just assume to refer to bits of life just by their name and get on with something new.