Narcissism

[piercehawkeye45]

http://www.twincities.com/life/ci_5524838

I was reading this article today and I started to think about narcissism, how it relates to the world today, what is the cause, and how can we prevent it if we want to do that.

First of all, this article says that my generation (I am 18) is the most narcissistic generation of all time. Now, while I think the level is a gross exaggeration from what I have seen but I do see many instances of extreme narcissism in my everyday life and knowing that I am only 18, can’t compare my generation to any other. I would like your opinion on whether or not you guys think that my generation is the most narcissistic generation that you have seen and please provide examples.

Now, like I said earlier, I do see many instances of extreme narcissism. For example, a few months ago I saw a girl maybe two years older than me walk right in front of an intersection when she didn’t have the walk sign and she cut off at least three cars. While I and most others do jaywalk, we make sure that we don’t cut off any cars for the sake of courtesy and the common sense of knowing that if a mistake is made, I will be the one either dead or in the hospital. This could be a rare occurrence (I certainly hope so) but what makes someone so self-centered to think that the whole world should revolve around them, especially someone over 18 years old? Did these people miss the stage where they see the world from a nihilistic view and realize that in the big scheme of things, everyone one of us has about as much worth as a penny does to a billionaire? How can these people be in so much denial to think that their life is any better than the people living next to them?

The article says that this comes from our parents “parenting style” and the constant reinforcement that we are “special” I think it is deeper than that or intertwined with other aspects of life. Through my short amount of years, I have realized that self-worth runs side to side with mental maturity. I have noticed that the most mature of individuals tend to look at others needs first and are less likely to do something that will be a major inconvenience to the people around them. I have also noticed that many people around me are very mentally immature. Has our society discouraged us to “grow up” and take responsibility for ourselves? The obvious answer is yes. I have personally felt the forces to be a child for as long as we can. Something that I feel will have major consequences in the near future. Debt will skyrocket, parenting skills will get even worse than it is today, and people will stop doing what is imperative for our society to function.

I will have to admit to my hypocrisy on this topic and the biggest reason for my maturity comes from a good friend of mine and I realize that without his friendship, I would be much different than I am today. This comes to my next point. Why are we not forced to mature and are we missing certain aspects that come with maturity? We are never taught to take responsibility for ourselves, in school, we are not allowed to find out that skipping classes will most likely result in lower test scores and that not being babied on how to do an assignment will allow us to use other resources to complete it.

I could go on much longer but I am going to end my rant here. What do you guys think will happen if this narcissism continues to exist and get worse if we even have it in the first place? Do you guys think it comes from parenting, friends, society, or a combination of the above?

By the way, by narcissism and thinking we are not better than others I don’t mean competitive wise but worth wise. I think I can beat other people but I do not think that my life is worth any more than anyone else’s.

[xoxoxoBruce]

That's because you don't believe life is a popularity contest.

[Bullitt]

Why are we not forced to mature and are we missing certain aspects that come with maturity?

My response to the first would be the whole "I'm my own person, I can do X if I want to!" Leading to self indulging behaviors, etc.
And to the second, absolutely.

[Undertoad]

We are in a period in our culture where we overvalue and overprotect children. This is a generational change; when I was a kid (the late 60s/early 70s), children were undervalued and underprotected, while in a previous generation children were again overvalued and overprotected.

My era of youth had terms like "latchkey children". The current era has terms like "no child left behind".

Another example: Disney, during the earlier promotion of childhood, had a string of masterpieces in the 50s: Cinderella, Alice in Wonderland, Peter Pan, Lady and the Tramp, Sleeping Beauty and 101 Dalmations. My childhood was 1968-1978: the decline of Disney and second-rate films like "The Aristocats" (1970) and "Robin Hood" (1973) and long periods of time when NO Disney animated films were even produced. It wasn't until the latest overvaluing of children that the latest round of Disney masterpieces would arrive, starting with "The Little Mermaid" (1989).

I can't see that it has any actual benefit to the children. The under/overvaluing is solely for the benefit of the adults.

[DanaC]

Y'know.....I don't think it's such a bad thing that children are raised to think highly of themselves. As far as I can tell, the youngsters I come across at Uni are no more or less narcissistic that my generation, they just have a little more confidence and some of them seem rather more focussed on their goals than we were.

I was narcissistic as a teenager.....I think it kind of goes with the territory. How else can you describe that absolute conviction that the world is yours to remake and all the bold things in life are the invention of you and your peers? Maybe things are different in the US, I can only answer for the UK.

I think just the opposite. We are afraid to say "I'm awesome at this" or really take compliments, truly feel good about ourselves, be comfortable in our bodies, and anything that smacks of real self-confidence.
It freaks people out when they are around those that have these qualities, especially if they are being shown by a female.
Then you are a bitch or ass-hole.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

... We are never taught to take responsibility for ourselves, ...

Today's parents think that protecting a child is the most important thing. A record of misbehavior might negatively effect the child's ability to be accepted by an elite school and make gobs of money, so they sue, or whatever, so that the child is not penalized for bad behavior. The next thing you know, you have a thrity-year-old who thinks that they can do whatever they want without reprocussions - Mommy and Daddy will take care of it.

[TheMercenary]

I see today’s parents, and parents of the 90s as significantly contributing to the ME generation attitude. Here is an example: we had our kids involved in sports from the time they could participate, say around 5 or 6. Three kids, lots of sports. Everybody gets a feel good trophy, everybody gets the ole pat on the head, no first place, no second place, etc. They have taken out the idea that kids can and do fail that things they compete in. It continues all the way till they at least reach the 9th grade. Everybody has to feel good. It has had two effects, one that kids are absolutely devastated when they actually do fail, or that the parents, and I do mean the parents, become so obsessed with the fact that their kids have to be recognized for their achievements that they go bonkers when the kid just does not make the cut. We have created a generation of monsters. Parents are out of control. Refs and coaches are verbally and in some cases physically attacked at sporting events. Kids need to learn that not everyone gets to be first, not everyone gets the trophy, not everyone is going to be the best at that one event. They need to develop coping mechanisms to deal with the disappointment that goes along with loss and failure. No wonder we have a nation of people depending on anti-depressants.

Back closer to the subject of the thread, many traits that are considered to be narcissistic are also trait of strong personalities, it is when they are carried to extreme that they become a problem.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

I think just the opposite. We are afraid to say "I'm awesome at this" or really take compliments, truly feel good about ourselves, be comfortable in our bodies, and anything that smacks of real self-confidence.
It freaks people out when they are around those that have these qualities, especially if they are being shown by a female.
Then you are a bitch or ass-hole.

As Mercenary pointed out in the last post, I think there is a difference between that and what I am talking about. I want everyone to be confident with themselves but once you get passed that to being cocky, you lose regard for the other people around you. You start to believe that the world should revolve around you, when it most certainly should not.

Originally Posted by spexxvet

The next thing you know, you have a thrity-year-old who thinks that they can do whatever they want without reprocussions - Mommy and Daddy will take care of it.

That and they don't think of the consequences for their actions. They think they can do whatever they want and "everything will work out in the end". Just on Monday, I was playing volleyball with some friends and this douchebag on a moped drives through the volleyball court and then drives through a basketball court and knocks into some people. Everyone was in too much shock to actually do something but if he hurt me or one of my friends, I think I, along with everyone around me, would have executed some vigilante justice on his ass. Some people still think that nothing bad can happen and it is this type of thinking that is getting people killed (drunk driving, drag races while other cars are on the road, and jumping in front of traffic expecting the car to stop for him or her, etc).

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Kids need to learn that not everyone gets to be first, not everyone gets the trophy, not everyone is going to be the best at that one event.

Exactly, as long as we live in a capitalistic society, competition should be second nature for everyone. If you lose, tough shit, you work your ass off and beat the person next time.

Back closer to the subject of the thread, many traits that are considered to be narcissistic are also trait of strong personalities, it is when they are carried to extreme that they become a problem.

Agreed, but once this person starts only thinking about oneself it becomes a problem.

[elSicomoro]

I'm so awesome...just ask me.

[Perry Winkle]

I'm sorry...I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.

I'm not narcissistic, I'm just arrogant and over-confident and in love with the sound of my own voice.

[Sundae]

Without wanting to agree with a thread that presents my least favourite world view (things are worse than they've ever been, woe for the good old days, we're going to hell in a handbasket) I do agree that there appears to be a trend towards lack of personal responsibility.

I wonder if part of it is the burden of choice placed on very young children. My generation were told what to do. Even where there was potential choice it was limited. We had limited children's television programmes on 2 channels, no choice in school dinners (not even the choice not to eat them - we were sent back to the table if our plates were too full), our parents chose where we went to school, where we went on holiday (if at all).

It meant that when we got to make decisions for ourselves at 16+ it was a scary experience. We felt the weight of the responsibility and unconsciously tried to reflect our parents' choices. When we did ridiculous, dangerous, even criminal things we knew we were doing something they wouldn't approve of and we knew we deserved to get into trouble - we just kept our fingers crossed and laughed nervously when we got away with it.

Now children are bombarded with choice.

Just as a small example, when I worked in the supermarket I often saw mothers saying to children barely old enough to talk, "Do you want that one? Or the other one? Do you want yoghurt or Froobs? Did you like that when we had it last week?" I remember watching a father letting his daughter choose her clothes - she couldn't have been more than 3. He was trying to tell her she could have the trousers or the dress but she kept tugging on both. She got both.

Children now seem to grow up believing their choices are important, that they are the ones in control of their lives. This is fiction, they are safe because their parents keep them safe. They believe they are capable of making complex decisions at a younger and younger age, but in fact they still need guidance.

So often on forums or tv or overheard conversations I hear teens stubbornly refusing advice in the belief that they know what they want and that's the most important thing. Forget what other people say, especially older people, they will follow their gut instinct because they know it's right.

Sigh.

Apologies for sweeping statements.

[Clodfobble]

I agree with you, SG. I do think it's important to teach kids decision-making abilities (of course caving in and buying both the dress and the trousers was nothing of the sort) but I think it matters what you give them a choice about.

For example, in my house the kids get to pick what they want for breakfast--but in reality, their choice is really only between the 2 or 3 standard breakfast items that we have, and I choose what gets purchased at the store, no exceptions. But in comparison, when my mother-in-law stayed with us last summer she made the same breakfast for everyone (and we're not talking about cooking or anything, she just put a bowl of cold cereal in front of everyone) but she made a big deal about letting the kids pick what color glass they wanted to drink out of. The kids took the breakfast thing in stride, because they knew she was there to help with the baby and it was a special situation, but after just a few days of choosing their glass color they started bickering fiercely over who would get which glass.

I see it as a spectrum: completely unimportant decisions, somewhat important decisions, and truly important decisions. Children shouldn't be allowed to make the truly important decisions for obvious reasons, and they shouldn't be given unimportant decisions like the color of their cup because all it does is teach them these things are important when they're not. Only the decisions that are comfortably in the middle are good learning tools.

[Spexxvet]

Me me me I, me I I I I me, me myself me me.

[Shawnee123]

My mom gives me her old copies of Time Magazine, so by the time I'm reading most of it is old news. I don't mind because it gives me a different insight into things that have come to pass. Also, articles such as the recent special section about the human brain are not really time-appropriate.

Anyway, yesterday after the big cell phone thread melee, and what I wrote about the 'look at me' world (here), I read a letter to time concerning them picking "YOU" (us, me) as Person of the Year:
TIME is right. It is the age of "Me." Cell-phone users hold personal conversations loud enough for the world to hear. Drivers swerve down the freeway, coffee in one hand, cell phone in the other, honking and worrying about no one but themselves. Totally uninteresting people make videos describing their lives. Has all this noise made things better? Maybe the next Persons of the Year should be "They," so people might actually consider the existence of other human beings.

BOB WIDMER

As to parents of today, in the college world we call them "Helicopter Parents." I refer again to my post concerning the "don't blame me" generation with an article that sums it up nicely, imho. Don't get me wrong, parental involvement is a wonderful thing; but kids need to learn to stand on their own. Then again, look how I turned out.