Affirmative Action Unnecessary?

[Spexxvet]

I work in an office with 7 people. The owner is a Christian Caucasions. All of the employees are "Christian" Caucasions. This county is about 70% white

RACE AND ETHNICITY
White 70.9
Black or African American 18.1
American Indian and Alaska native 0.3
Asian 3.7
Native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.0
Some other race 5.1
Two or more races 1.9
Hispanic or Latino 9.7

and we are about 2 miles from the city of Camden, NJ., which is about 17% white.

Demographics
As of the census of 2000
16.84% White,
53.35% Black or African American,
0.54% Native American,
2.45% Asian,
0.07% Pacific Islander,
22.83% from other races,
3.92% from two or more races.
38.82% of the population were Hispanic or Latino of any race.

If hiring practices were truly color blind, shouldn't this office have at least one minority working here?
Since no minority works here, is there something going on (consciously or unconsciously)?
Is it right that no minority works here, given the makeup of the local population?

[wolf]

What are the actual racial demographics in Optometry schools ... not just entry, but graduation numbers? This would say more about your hiring pool than your community demographics.

Hiring should be based solely on ability. Not race, gender, religion, or any other granfalloon.

Admittedly, I am surprised that you don't have any Jews in your office.

If you're that uptight about it, tell your boss to fire his wife who's working as the receptionist/bookkeeper, and tell him he has to hire a black man.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by wolf

What are the actual demographics in Optometry schools ... not just entry, but graduation numbers?

Hiring should be based solely on ability. Not race, gender, or religion.

Although I am surprised that you don't have any Jews.

Not all are professionals. We're talking receptionist, tech, office manager, billing clerk.

[glatt]

Each one of those non-professional jobs you list has its own set of required qualifications. Was the most qualified candidate hired in each instance?

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by glatt

Each one of those non-professional jobs you list has its own set of required qualifications. Was the most qualified candidate hired in each instance?

Not in my opinion. There have been 5 other hires in the time I've been here - all white Christians.

BTW wolf, I'm not "uptight" about it. I'm just trying to show why affirmative action is necessary.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by wolf

... tell your boss to fire his wife who's working as the receptionist/bookkeeper, ...

She doesn't work here.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

She doesn't work here.

Unusual in a small business setting.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

That is why someone who had half my GPA, with no community service or student government involvement received a scholarship to Yale instead of me? Level playing field?
Not even close.

I am sorry that you didn't get into Yale. But not too sorry, when weighed against a minority's chance of getting in, were it not for affirmative action. In the not-so-distant-past, black people were not allowed to go to most colleges. When measured against that, your loss is, well, not even close. I hope you got an education from Brown or Penn or Duke....

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

You should have heard the distain the woman had when she told me about it, something she was not supposed to do.

Was she a racist? Quotas in colleges are often because the administration feels that the college experience is better when you share it some people who are not just like you. Then there are the athletes and musicians who got in when you didn't, and it wasn't for their ethnicity, and they didn't have the academic qualification that you had. They had other things to offer than SAT scores. Did the woman show disdain for those folks, too?

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

It harms the minorities it does not help them.It furthers the idea that they cannot do it on their own.
The club that I was involved in in college that is, predominantly, about helping blacks in school and after they get out of school feels this way as well. Affirmative action is harmful and degrading.

The black people in your college club were not kept out of college because they were black, were they? I wonder if their perspective would have been different if they had better scholastic credentials than you, but you got in and they didn't, just because they were black.

[Sundae]

Leicester statistics in the same format:
63.8 - White
3.07% - Black
29.9% - Asian
0.5% - Chinese
0.32% - Other race
2.32% - Mixed race

Now when I look around my office I would say that approx 25% of the staff are non-white, which roughly matches the population.

I would say this has been the case in every office I've worked in (the percentage roughly reflects the diversity of the location I mean, not the precise percentage shown above).

On the one hand I find the idea of affirmative action quite sinister - choosing a candidate because of the colour of their skin rather than because of their ability. However I find the idea of an all-white office in such an ethnically diverse area rather sinister as well - for exactly the same reason.

Post the whole quote, because when AA was used in my office that person got NO respect. People walked past their office to go to someone's office who got their job based on their criteria alone.
How would you feel if you got a job instead of someone with more education, more experience, more training and a higher license? I would feel like a schmuck and decline the job.
The fact is that no one is kept out of college because they are black or female now, so the point is moot.
AA is harmful, only harmful, for all involved.
No, she was not racist, she just wants the best students to get the positions in the school. The kid that got the position had not even been involved in their school's theatre group and did not even have the GPA Yale required to get into their Theatre school (just the best minority applicant that year).
Again, since you did not read it the first time, it was GPA, clubs, student government and community service that I had been involved with. She begged me to wait a year (not something I was willing to do).
The other student had no extra-curricular activities.
White male students recently sued a major Texas school for doing this, they won, I am glad they did. Lowering standards should be illegal in all cases.

That is why someone who had half my GPA, with no community service or student government involvement received a scholarship to Yale instead of me? Level playing field?
Not even close.
You should have heard the disdain the woman (in admissions)had when she told me about it, something she was not supposed to do.
At my office if someone was promoted with less education, less experience and less training they received how much respect? I bet you can guess.
It harms the minorities it does not help them.
It furthers the idea that they cannot do it on their own.
The club that I was involved in in college that is, predominantly, about helping blacks in school and after they get out of school feels this way as well. Affirmative action is harmful and degrading.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Post the whole quote, because when AA was used in my office that person got NO respect. People walked past their office to go to someone's office who got their job based on their criteria alone.
How would you feel if you got a job instead of someone with more education, more experience, more training and a higher license? I would feel like a schmuck and decline the job.

I didn't post that part because it didn't seems germane. I am a white male. When a male idiot douche bag was promoted instead of several other better qualified white male people, the others were pissed. AA has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

The fact is that no one is kept out of college because they are black or female now, so the point is moot.

Maybe they aren't kept out because of Affirmative Action and similar laws and policies.

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

AA is harmful, only harmful, for all involved.

That's your opinion.

We need to force the NY diamond market, Curves and the NAACP to fully and equally integrate at all levels then.

[TheMercenary]

AA is a farce. Plain and simple. To hire someone based purely on color is the same as having token negros to empty the trash just so you can say you hired one. Same for any other color. There is an idea in America that you cannot be discriminated against unless you are a non-white. That crap has got to stop. For every racist white person you find I can show you a black who is equally racist. Hiring practices should be based solely on merit. Nothing more, nothing less. Let the chips fall where they will after that. Screw afirmative blacksion.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

To hire someone based purely on color is the same as having token negros to empty the trash just so you can say you hired one. Same for any other color. There is an idea in America that you cannot be discriminated against unless you are a non-white. That crap has got to stop. For every racist white person you find I can show you a black who is equally racist. Hiring practices should be based solely on merit. Nothing more, nothing less. Let the chips fall where they will after that. Screw afirmative blacksion.

Okay, someone has to clear this up for me. Here is the text from Executive Order 11246, emphasis mine.

OFCCP Mission Description

The Department of Labor's Employment Standards Administration's Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs (OFCCP) enforces the Executive Order 11246, as amended; Section 503 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, as amended and the affirmative action provisions (Section 4212) of the Vietnam Era Veterans' Readjustment Assistance Act, as amended. Taken together, these laws ban discrimination and require Federal contractors and subcontractors to take affirmative action to ensure that all individuals have an equal opportunity for employment, without regard to race, color, religion, sex, national origin, disability or status as a Vietnam era or special disabled veteran.

C. Executive Order Affirmative Action Requirements

i. For Supply and Service Contractors

Non-construction (service and supply) contractors with 50 or more employees and government contracts of $50,000 or more are required, under Executive Order 11246, to develop and implement a written affirmative action program (AAP) for each establishment. The regulations define an AAP as a set of specific and result-oriented procedures to which a contractor commits itself to apply every good faith effort. The AAP is developed by the contractor (with technical assistance from OFCCP if requested) to assist the contractor in a self-audit of its workforce. The AAP is kept on file and carried out by the contractor; it is submitted to OFCCP only if the agency requests it for the purpose of conducting a compliance review.

The AAP identifies those areas, if any, in the contractor’s workforce that reflect utilization of women and minorities. The regulations at 41 CFR 60-2.11 (b) define under-utilization as having fewer minorities or women in a particular job group than would reasonably be expected by their availability. When determining availability of women and minorities, contractors consider, among other factors, the presence of minorities and women having requisite skills in an area in which the contractor can reasonable recruit.

Based on the utilization analyses under Executive Order 11246 and the availability of qualified individuals, the contractors establish goals to reduce or overcome the under-utilization. Good faith efforts may include expanded efforts in outreach, recruitment, training and other activities to increase the pool of qualified minorities and females. The actual selection decision is to be made on a non-discriminatory basis.

Someone please explain to me how affirmative action went from "contractors with over 50 employees doing government work using taxpayer dollars should document that they're doing their best to not discriminate based upon race" to "affirmative action is requiring corporations to choose less qualified people based on their race".

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

For every racist white person you find I can show you a black who is equally racist.

A racist white person can keep a minority out of a good job while a racist minority can't do much.

AA should only be a temporary solution to a bigger problem but all it is a cover up to make it seem that we care about minorities just like black hisotry month. If we wanted to help the minorities we would make it easier for them to get the qualifications most white people have but that is too much work and the racist agenda wouldn't approve of it.

Being against AA isn't racist but denying the fact that minorities are at a disavantage is.