American Wahabbis and the Ten Commandments - Page 7

vsp · 04-02-2005, 02:28 PM

Maybe. It's a stretch, but the proponents of this bill claim that Article III of the Constitution gives Congress the right to restrict the judiciary's oversight of the Constitution, literally locking away entire classes of laws and saying "You _can't_ rule these to be unconstitutional, because we've taken away your right to do so." That's a Pat Robertson wet dream right there, as it would give states the ability to become miniature Christian-right fiefdoms without federal recourse.

Would it work? Which side (the legislature saying "No, you can't" or the courts saying "yes, we CAN") would be enforceable, and how? Hopefully, it'll never be tested.

Beestie · 04-02-2005, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vsp

Maybe. It's a stretch, but the proponents of this bill claim that Article III of the Constitution gives Congress the right to restrict the judiciary's oversight of the Constitution, literally locking away entire classes of laws and saying "You _can't_ rule these to be unconstitutional, because we've taken away your right to do so."

Man, this could get seriously ugly. Maybe we need for it to.

Troubleshooter · 04-02-2005, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beestie

Man, this could get seriously ugly. Maybe we need for it to.

I've been of the opinion, for a few years now, that it isn't nearly bad enough to get better yet.

It's also been a theory of mine that America as we know it is only a stepping stone on a still rather long and bumpy road.

richlevy · 04-02-2005, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vsp

Maybe. It's a stretch, but the proponents of this bill claim that Article III of the Constitution gives Congress the right to restrict the judiciary's oversight of the Constitution, literally locking away entire classes of laws and saying "You _can't_ rule these to be unconstitutional, because we've taken away your right to do so." That's a Pat Robertson wet dream right there, as it would give states the ability to become miniature Christian-right fiefdoms without federal recourse.

Would it work? Which side (the legislature saying "No, you can't" or the courts saying "yes, we CAN") would be enforceable, and how? Hopefully, it'll never be tested.

Let's see

Quote:

Article III.

Section. 1.

The judicial Power of the United States shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services a Compensation, which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office.

Section. 2.

The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;--to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls;--to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction;--to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;--to Controversies between two or more States;-- between a State and Citizens of another State;--between Citizens of different States;--between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.

In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.

The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed.

If Congress intends to say that displeasing members of Congress is bad behavior, than the courts will have every right to strike down the law. Just like a cop can't get fired for giving a speeding ticket to the mayor, a judge can't be fired for doing his or her job.

If they try this, then it will be the wake-up call for anybody who is anywhere to the left of rabidly stupid right-wing, which includes true conseratives, moderates, libertarians, liberals, .....

BigV · 04-02-2005, 11:56 PM

From here:

RELIGIOUS EXTREMISTS SEEK THEIR OWN 'ACTIVIST' JUDGES

Sat Apr 2, 8:25 PM ET

By Cynthia Tucker

Friends of Florida judge George Greer describe him as a low-key conservative Christian, a Republican, a family man, a dog lover. Appellate courts have found over and over again that Greer simply followed the law in deciding a sad and controversial case. But for that sin, the Pinellas County Circuit Court judge was invited out of his Southern Baptist Church.

Apparently, Greer's critics, including his pastor, didn't like his rulings in the Terri Schiavo case, which landed in his courtroom in 1998. They wanted him to be an activist judge -- a jurist who ignored the law and ruled according to the passions of a group of partisans.

Ultraconservatives want you to believe the term "activist judge" applies to a group of determined liberals whose rulings have overturned historic precedent, undermined morality and defied common sense. But the controversy that erupted around Schiavo, who died on Thursday, ought to remind us once and for all what "activist judge" really means: a jurist whose rulings dissatisfy a right-wing political constituency.

emphasis mine.

I can see inviting the judge out of the church. It's a private organization, like, say the Atlanta Country Club where the Masters Tournament is held that prohibits women from playing. Whatever. Stoooopid, but not really my business. They wouldn't want me, and I f'sho don't want them.

But the whining and clamoring about "activist judges" is a drum I'm worn out beating.

To be plain:

Coming from people who don't get their way, the decisions are coming from "activist judges". When they do get their way, the decisions come from "stalwart constructionists".

This kind of partisan rooting and cheering is something that lends spice to the local football game, but on a national level, um, aren't we all Americans rooting for the Con-sti-too-shun?

Hey, can I get a show of hands here? Who thinks the actions of the courts in the latest round of this story rises to the level of jurisIMprudence, judicial activisim, etc?

Troubleshooter · 04-03-2005, 01:25 PM

Hey Wolf, what kind of bulk discount does Cheaper Than Dirt offer?

wolf · 04-03-2005, 01:53 PM

You might actually be able to do better if you have stuff drop-shipped from the manufacturer.

Troubleshooter · 04-03-2005, 02:05 PM

True, I hadn't thought about that.

I may go ahead and order that carbine I was looking at as well.

wolf · 04-03-2005, 02:13 PM

If I might suggest this ...

It's available in a variety of grip styles, so you can match your carry to your carbine ... oh, and yes, the 30 rnd stick mags work just fine. Don't worry about how I know ...

xoxoxoBruce · 04-03-2005, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richlevy

If they try this, then it will be the wake-up call for anybody who is anywhere to the left of rabidly stupid right-wing, which includes true conseratives, moderates, libertarians, liberals, .....

That sound’s logical but what about when a 6.7 magnitude, shallow crust earthquake hits Seattle. 39,000 buildings destroyed, 130 simultaneously burning fires, 7700 dead or badly hurt, every major bridge down, hillsides sliding, a 10 foot wave through the waterfront and emergency services non-existent.
Or a tsunami hits any coast.
Or a dirty bomb in any city.
Now you have martial law in an ever expanding swath to prevent looting, clear the way for emergency services and prevent the spread of disease/contamination. For the children, damn it!!!
It’s a national crisis....unusual measures for unusual times.....we certainly need God’s help in this disaster.....these new laws and “adjustments” are only temporary until......damn it, we don’t have time to debate this......per order of Homeland Security.....if ya got a problem, write your congressman, now get on the damn truck.........cuff him, Dano.

Troubleshooter · 04-03-2005, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf

If I might suggest this ...

It's available in a variety of grip styles, so you can match your carry to your carbine ... oh, and yes, the 30 rnd stick mags work just fine. Don't worry about how I know ...

I had looked at it, and a friend of mine has a pistol of their's. It's rather ugly, although neither of them is a beauty queen.

I don't like the skeletal look and it's a bit pricier.

wolf · 04-03-2005, 03:07 PM

It's around $350, doesn't have to be beautiful to be functional, and it folds in half. How cool is that?

They also have the SU-16 line, which fires .223, and has a fold down bipod integrated into the design. Oh, and it also folds in half for compact storage.

Troubleshooter · 04-03-2005, 03:15 PM

I want to move to some uniformity in ammunition across my line. It's going to be .40 cal all the way.

All I need is a sub-gun, and the carbine. Or the two combined...

wolf · 04-03-2005, 03:21 PM

I understand about uniformity of caliber, I'm a .40 woman myself, which is why I selected the KelTec ... not only is it in my favored caliber, but it uses the same magazines.

BigV · 04-03-2005, 03:22 PM

wolf, TS, I lost the track of the beginning of the weaponry discussion... could you guide me back to the start of it so I can understand what in the world y'all are talkin about, please?

04-02-2005, 11:56 PM	#95
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	Look up hipocrisy in the dictionary, see this cite From here: RELIGIOUS EXTREMISTS SEEK THEIR OWN 'ACTIVIST' JUDGES Sat Apr 2, 8:25 PM ET By Cynthia Tucker Friends of Florida judge George Greer describe him as a low-key conservative Christian, a Republican, a family man, a dog lover. Appellate courts have found over and over again that Greer simply followed the law in deciding a sad and controversial case. But for that sin, the Pinellas County Circuit Court judge was invited out of his Southern Baptist Church. Apparently, Greer's critics, including his pastor, didn't like his rulings in the Terri Schiavo case, which landed in his courtroom in 1998. They wanted him to be an activist judge -- a jurist who ignored the law and ruled according to the passions of a group of partisans. Ultraconservatives want you to believe the term "activist judge" applies to a group of determined liberals whose rulings have overturned historic precedent, undermined morality and defied common sense. But the controversy that erupted around Schiavo, who died on Thursday, ought to remind us once and for all what "activist judge" really means: a jurist whose rulings dissatisfy a right-wing political constituency. emphasis mine. I can see inviting the judge out of the church. It's a private organization, like, say the Atlanta Country Club where the Masters Tournament is held that prohibits women from playing. Whatever. Stoooopid, but not really my business. They wouldn't want me, and I f'sho don't want them. But the whining and clamoring about "activist judges" is a drum I'm worn out beating. To be plain: Coming from people who don't get their way, the decisions are coming from "activist judges". When they do get their way, the decisions come from "stalwart constructionists". This kind of partisan rooting and cheering is something that lends spice to the local football game, but on a national level, um, aren't we all Americans rooting for the Con-sti-too-shun? Hey, can I get a show of hands here? Who thinks the actions of the courts in the latest round of this story rises to the level of jurisIMprudence, judicial activisim, etc? __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

04-03-2005, 01:25 PM	#96
Troubleshooter The urban Jane Goodall Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 3,012	Hey Wolf, what kind of bulk discount does Cheaper Than Dirt offer? __________________ I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle

04-03-2005, 01:53 PM	#97
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	You might actually be able to do better if you have stuff drop-shipped from the manufacturer. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

04-03-2005, 02:05 PM	#98
Troubleshooter The urban Jane Goodall Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 3,012	True, I hadn't thought about that. I may go ahead and order that carbine I was looking at as well. __________________ I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle

04-03-2005, 02:13 PM	#99
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	If I might suggest this ... It's available in a variety of grip styles, so you can match your carry to your carbine ... oh, and yes, the 30 rnd stick mags work just fine. Don't worry about how I know ... __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

04-02-2005, 02:28 PM	#91
vsp Syndrome of a Down Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: West Chester Posts: 1,367	Maybe. It's a stretch, but the proponents of this bill claim that Article III of the Constitution gives Congress the right to restrict the judiciary's oversight of the Constitution, literally locking away entire classes of laws and saying "You _can't_ rule these to be unconstitutional, because we've taken away your right to do so." That's a Pat Robertson wet dream right there, as it would give states the ability to become miniature Christian-right fiefdoms without federal recourse. Would it work? Which side (the legislature saying "No, you can't" or the courts saying "yes, we CAN") would be enforceable, and how? Hopefully, it'll never be tested.

04-03-2005, 03:07 PM	#102
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	It's around $350, doesn't have to be beautiful to be functional, and it folds in half. How cool is that? They also have the SU-16 line, which fires .223, and has a fold down bipod integrated into the design. Oh, and it also folds in half for compact storage. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

04-03-2005, 03:15 PM	#103
Troubleshooter The urban Jane Goodall Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 3,012	I want to move to some uniformity in ammunition across my line. It's going to be .40 cal all the way. All I need is a sub-gun, and the carbine. Or the two combined... __________________ I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle

04-03-2005, 03:21 PM	#104
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	I understand about uniformity of caliber, I'm a .40 woman myself, which is why I selected the KelTec ... not only is it in my favored caliber, but it uses the same magazines. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

04-03-2005, 03:22 PM	#105
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	wolf, TS, I lost the track of the beginning of the weaponry discussion... could you guide me back to the start of it so I can understand what in the world y'all are talkin about, please? __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

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