The Cellar  

Go Back   The Cellar > Main > Current Events
FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Current Events Help understand the world by talking about things happening in it

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-21-2013, 09:42 PM   #16
richlevy
King Of Wishful Thinking
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Philadelphia Suburbs
Posts: 6,669
Ammonal nitrate is half of the ingredient to make ammonal explosives. These were used in WWI in large quantities with devastating results.

Quote:
From early 1916, the British Army employed ammonal for their mines during World War I, starting with the Hawthorn Ridge mine during the Battle of the Somme. Three of the mines used at the Battle of Messines, which were exploded at the start of the Third Battle of Ypres (a.k.a. Battle of Passchendaele), contained 30,000 lbs (over 13.6 metric tons) of ammonal. A fourth contained 20,000 lbs (over 9 metric tons). The British Army detonated 19 ammonal mines under the German lines, killing 10,000 in the deadliest non-nuclear man-made explosion in history.
Photo of aftermath (NSFW)

Many of the German troops at the battle of Messines were in trenches and were killed by the shockwave travelling through the earth.

While these were prepared explosives combining Ammonium Nitrate with powdered aluminum, it was still 50,000 lbs compared to the massive amount of pure Ammonium Nitrate in the facility.
__________________
Exercise your rights and remember your obligations - VOTE!
I have always believed that hope is that stubborn thing inside us that insists, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that something better awaits us so long as we have the courage to keep reaching, to keep working, to keep fighting. -- Barack Hussein Obama
richlevy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2013, 10:17 PM   #17
ZenGum
Doctor Wtf
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Badelaide, Baustralia
Posts: 12,861
Quote:
Originally Posted by tw View Post
Initial reports suggest that attitude did not exist. This facility had no serious safety problems.

However this facility was built in 1962. Grandfathering meant it did not need many safety solutions currently required in newer facilities.

Another question. 540,000 tons of ammonia nitrate were in that facility. At what point is so much in one place too much?
Well, we must be seeing different "initial reports", then.

I've only seen numbers like 20 tons, not 540,000. Mind you, I'm a tad suspicious of the 20 tons figure, because while AN is explosive, that was a bloody big bang for 20 tons. But 540,000? Would that even fit?

And I have seen several sources reporting a lax attitude to safety, not just within the facility, but in Texas authorities. They had only very occasional inspections, trivial fines (one mentioned $30!), and neglected instructions to develop proper risk assessments and ignored instructions to install firewalls, sprinklers, and alarms.
__________________
Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008.
Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.
ZenGum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2013, 10:39 PM   #18
elSicomoro
Person who doesn't update the user title
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 12,486
Quote:
Fertilizer plants and depots must report to the DHS when they hold 400 pounds or more of the substance. Filings this year with the Texas Department of State Health Services, which weren't shared with DHS, show the plant had 270 tons of it on hand last year.
story

Texas seems like such a dichotomy to me.
elSicomoro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2013, 08:15 PM   #19
richlevy
King Of Wishful Thinking
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Philadelphia Suburbs
Posts: 6,669
Quote:
Originally Posted by sycamore View Post
story

Texas seems like such a dichotomy to me.
If by dichotomy you mean schizophrenic, then yes.
__________________
Exercise your rights and remember your obligations - VOTE!
I have always believed that hope is that stubborn thing inside us that insists, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that something better awaits us so long as we have the courage to keep reaching, to keep working, to keep fighting. -- Barack Hussein Obama
richlevy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2013, 10:22 PM   #20
xoxoxoBruce
The future is unwritten
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
On April 16, 1947, a ship loaded with ammonium nitrate docked at the Port of Texas City erupted in flames, causing a massive explosion that killed approximately 576 people. 2,300 tons of the ammonium nitrate detonated, flattening 1,000 buildings in the city. All of the city's firefighting equipment was destroyed in the blast and 26 firemen were killed. A second ship at the port, also carrying 961 tons of ammonium nitrate and 1,800 tons of sulfur ammonium nitrate, caught fire in the blast and exploded 16 hours later.

Belgium, when they tried to disaggregate a pile of 150 tonnes of ammonium nitrate with industrial explosives ended tragically on April 29, 1942: 189 people were killed, 900 wounded.

France, The cargo ship Ocean Liberty was loaded with 3300 tonnes of ammonium nitrate and various inflammable products when it caught fire at 12:30 July 28, 1947. The explosion caused 29 deaths and serious damage to the port of Brest.

US, on November 29, 1988, at 4:07 am two trailers containing approximately 50,000 lb (23,000 kg) of ammonium nitrate exploded at a construction site located in Kansas City, Missouri. The result of the explosions were the deaths of six firemen from the Kansas City Fire Department. The blasts created two craters, each approximately 100 feet wide and 8 feet deep. The explosions also shattered windows within a 10-mile area and could be heard 40 miles away.

The list goes on and on but none of these disasters had anywhere near the 540,000 tons in West.
__________________
The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.
xoxoxoBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 11:11 PM   #21
tw
Read? I only know how to write.
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,933
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post
The list goes on and on but none of these disasters had anywhere near the 540,000 tons in West.
I'm not entirely sure of that number. It may have been 540,000 pounds. I'm waiting for a better report.
tw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2013, 05:07 PM   #22
BigV
Goon Squad Leader
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 27,063
yes, pounds.

still, 270 tons is one hell of a lot of boom.
__________________
Be Just and Fear Not.
BigV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2013, 06:33 PM   #23
Lamplighter
Person who doesn't update the user title
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Bottom lands of the Missoula floods
Posts: 6,402
Quote:
Originally Posted by richlevy View Post
If by dichotomy you mean schizophrenic, then yes.
Yes, but that's only the half of it.
Lamplighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2013, 07:58 AM   #24
ZenGum
Doctor Wtf
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Badelaide, Baustralia
Posts: 12,861
http://www.propublica.org/article/wh...e-regulators?1

This is a pretty good summary of what is known.
__________________
Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008.
Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.
ZenGum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 01:51 PM   #25
tw
Read? I only know how to write.
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,933
Industries get the regulations they deserve. Autos even have government regulations stamped into glass. Because that industry refused to implement safety glass until Senators discovered so much contempt and required it - by law.

Some industries are so responsible as to not have piles of regulations. For example, detergents once included a chemical called phthalate (if I remember the name). This was thought to be harmless until studies showed it was appearing inside and remaining inside human bodies. So the entire industry stopped using that chemical. Without any regulation. And without any reason for it to appear in the press.

We know the banking and investment industry is extremely corrupt. Because they think the purpose of business is a profit. Because they and the mafia believe in the same concept. So the financial industry cannot be over regulated. You cannot tell that to so many who only learn from political hacks. Who foolishly preach deregulation everywhere because their wacko leaders (ie Rush Limbaugh) have contempt for human life. An informed and moderate human understands why some industries (ie computers) need so little regulation. And why other industries (ie Wall Street) cannot be regulated enough.

Demonstrated by this event is why the agricultural industry has earned heavier regulations. It is not just fertilizer plants. Grain elevators may also demonstrate the same contempt for human life.

Also problematic are the so many towns people who had no idea that a school adjacent to that plant must be good. Same contempt is why people walked out onto a pier after observing the massive crack that showed the pier was collapsing into the Delaware River.

Only wackos believe we have too much regulation. Industries get the regulations they deserve. West TX demonstrates where we need more regulations - unfortunately. Because too many have contempt for human life - even if the deaths were only due to ignorance.
tw is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:59 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.