spanking or not?

[kerosene]

that clip is trajic.

Watch one of the nanny shows... they are often just as bad.
They change the behavior in a few days, never with hitting the children and often with multiple kids.


UK Nanny and Superstar Stella Reid has been sorting out US kids for 17 years and has now returned to home ground to battle problems with UK families.

The TV Nanny (Nanny 911- Fox TV and ITV2) believes that eating together as a family could change the health of the nation.

Latest research from Aunt Bessie's reveals that children who sit down with their parents at mealtimes are less likely to abuse drugs and alcohol, suffer depression and anxiety, or to develop heart disease, obesity or eating disorders.

They are also more likely to do well at school and have high self-esteem.

And yet the research reveals that the number of families in the UK that sit down together, even once a week for a traditional Sunday dinner, continues to fall.

Now Nanny Stella has launched a new campaign entitled 'Sit Down Sunday', with the aim of calling a halt to the erosion of family mealtimes.

[vivant]

I don't hit my kids. I don't hit my pets, parents, friends, or anyone else for that matter. It's just not my nature, nor something I want to condone. Power and might do not make right in my miniworld. Maybe I'm fortunate in that my kids are pretty mild and relatively easy-going, so that a situation has never (yet?) arisen in that I felt spanking was an appropriate way to handle it. Or react to it.

That said, I find it equally disturbing that other forms of manipulation are employed as a means to get children to "obey," namely methods advocated by The Nanny et al. Bribes, rewards, et cetera are no better IMO. YMMV.

I share her support for a return to family, including more family meals because I think a sense of responsibility to family is key in getting family members to cooperate and co-exist harmoniously. Normal personality quirks and occasional outbursts aside.

[DanaC]

I share her support for a return to family, including more family meals because I think a sense of responsibility to family is key in getting family members to cooperate and co-exist harmoniously. Normal personality quirks and occasional outbursts aside.

Well put. If you feel close as a family, I think you're far more likely to grow up feeling a sense of mutual responsibility.

Our meals together and the time that I spend reading to him and singing him to sleep are times that I cannot imagine not having... I just can't... I choose not to think of the day when he does not want it any more.
That someone would intentionally give that up for any reason is inconceivable to me. I use that word literally.

Sometimes I cannot due to pain (meaning I physically cannot... I often participate when I should not), meds, being in the hospital. When the time comes and I miss dinner with my wife and son and bedtime it feels like trauma to me.
I can't do so much with him that others can do, so these things are more important to me.
Also, as for discipline, I cannot chase him down and would not be able to physically intimidate him if I wanted to, even though I would never want to.
I have never felt the need or at a loss for not using these "tools".

[kerosene]

I view my role as a parent as both nurturer and mentor. For instance, if my son gets hurt (physically or emotionally) I comfort him, but I also talk with him about possible ways of dealing with it in a constructive way. We have lots of talks about lots of things. He learns to listen and to communicate. So, when he needs correction, it is less like punishment and more like a learning opportunity. He learns self awareness and acceptance. This has worked well for us. It may be because his personality jibes well with the method, or just that he has adjusted to my methods. I dunno, but it works for us.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by vivant

I don't hit my pets

I cuff my cats when they are out of line, but only immediately in a cause and effect way (ie trying to jump up & get at my dinner). ey, it's what their mother would do.

That said, I find it equally disturbing that other forms of manipulation are employed as a means to get children to "obey," namely methods advocated by The Nanny et al. Bribes, rewards, et cetera are no better IMO. YMMV.

But surely any kind of reward in that sense is manipulation - a smile, a kiss, a "Well done!" or just, "Thank you." Children need positive reinforcement and if this means a star chart with a reward at the end for ongoing good behaviour it is a useful lesson - the world in general rewards sustained efforts in terms of grades, qualifications, promotion etc.

[vivant]

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

But surely any kind of reward in that sense is manipulation - a smile, a kiss, a "Well done!" or just, "Thank you." Children need positive reinforcement and if this means a star chart with a reward at the end for ongoing good behaviour it is a useful lesson - the world in general rewards sustained efforts in terms of grades, qualifications, promotion etc.

I think there is a distinction between *recognition* and *reward*. And I agree that any of your examples could fall within either category, depending upon how it was employed. I think (for me) the main difference lies with intent; namely, is my smile/kiss or are my words contingent upon the child doing what I want the child to do? I'm trying to think of an example to illustrate my point better than my words are attempting to -

I don't think (all) kids need positive reinforcement; I do think all kids (as humans) crave recognition. Positive reinforcement would fall under the "all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares" umbrella as far as recognition goes. PR is one form of recognition, albeit a more manipulative one IMO. Manipulation isn't altogether a bad thing; we all do it to some letter, as parents if nothing else.

There is no one size fits all approach to interacting with children. Or employees. Or people in general. Different personalities and environments call for different strategies. You're correct that the world rewards sustained efforts; I think that is a good thing in some regards, and a frightening thing in others. I personally favor intrinsic motivation over extrinsic; I think my children are better off for it. I feel that I am. YMMV.

I have to get supper ready. I'll edit with an example, when one comes to mind.

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9708/14/nf...ing/index.html

Study: Spanking kids leads to long-term bad behavior
August 14, 1997
Web posted at: 9:37 p.m. EDT (0137 GMT)
CHICAGO (CNN) -- In the long run, it turns out that sparing the rod may not spoil the child after all. Indeed, according to a study released Thursday, the opposite may be true: Spanking a child may produce long-term ill effects.

Based on interviews with the mothers of about 3,000 children, researcher Murray Straus of the University of New Hampshire found that corporal punishment is counterproductive, resulting in more antisocial behavior by children in later years.

The results are always the same.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Never believe those New Hampshire hippies. The same mothers that say they never spanked their kids and they turned out just great, are the same ones saying their children never do wrong.... when the cops are kicking down the door.

[Aliantha]

You know, with the movement away from spanking children coinciding with all these behavioural problems in children, you surely must ask yourself what kind of drugs these researchers are on to say that spanking is bad for kids.

If you think YOUR kids are better off not being spanked, good for you, just stop trying to pretend you're a perfect parent compared to all the rest of us normal people trying to raise kids. (That's for all you hippies that say they don't spank their kids)

I say bring back corporal punishment in school too. That'd fix the little buggers right up. Give them something to worry about next time they feel like giving the teacher a bit of lip. Maybe then people wouldn't be having discussions about whether teachers should be allowed to taze kids in classrooms.

[SteveDallas]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

I say bring back corporal punishment in school too. That'd fix the little buggers right up. Give them something to worry about next time they feel like giving the teacher a bit of lip. Maybe then people wouldn't be having discussions about whether teachers should be allowed to taze kids in classrooms.

Why not compromise? At my school, the asst. principal was supposed to have had an electric paddle.

[Aliantha]

What an excellent suggestion Steve. Why didn't I think of that myself?

[TheMercenary]

Good post merc... that the butt is an erogenous zone is another reason not to.... now I'm off to get my paddle. I've been very bad!

Kid's behavior in schools has nothing to do with not hitting them, that would just make things worse.
It has to do with lazy/uninvolved parents who spend fifteen min a day with their kids and expect others to raise/teach their kids the things they are supposed to. Not a teacher's job.
No teacher will hit my kid, I can tell you that.