spanking or not?

Nope.
Teaches him one thing. Violence is an answer and when you are bigger than someone beating them up is how you get your way.
Has NOTHING to do with teaching them right from wrong.
Kids cannot see your objective, nor will they believe you if your excuse contradicts your actions... nor should they.
They can only see and WILL only LEARN from your tactics; in this case violence is the answer when I want something from someone.

Those are the facts, now my opinion.
Parents resort to spanking when they are tired, stressed and at their wits-end and cannot think of what to do next to:
Get their attention
Get them to listen
Get them to/not to _____
And, finally, the one that break out the belt/hand of those who swore they would never hit their kids; when the kid does something that scares the HOLY SHIT out of them

So, they hit the kid. Justified by past parents, others who say they "turned out GREAT", use words like "pat" and "spank" (never think reality: hitting and assult... though that is what it is, what it would be if someone did it to you just to get you to listen to them or to sit down at work). Justify it by telling themselves, "it's only a last resort" & "my family turned out great, except ____ and that's different", "other people need counseling to help them learn how to ______ not me! I've already raised ____ kids!"....
& the hits just keep coming....
But they are all lies.
Hitting is hitting... if you don't feel like it is justified against you... it is not against them.
There is not ONE situation that cannot be resolved without violence, not ONE.
Therefore, there is no excuse... I don't give a shit how many generations have done it for how long, that is the stupidest excuse I have ever heard of... I had lead paint in my room and I turned out fine... dumb.

[Rhianne]

I do hit my kids - but only in self defense.

LOL, that's different.
Oh, there are foam sword fights that get out of hand here.

[monster]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Nope.
Teaches him one thing. Violence is an answer and when you are bigger than someone beating them up is how you get your way.
Has NOTHING to do with teaching them right from wrong.
Kids cannot see your objective, nor will they believe you if your excuse contradicts your actions... nor should they.
They can only see and WILL only LEARN from your tactics; in this case violence is the answer when I want something from someone.

Those are the facts

No they are not. They are opinions.

Consider the case of the parent who "spanks" (this is only used in kinky terms in the UK -"smacks" is the term there) only at certain levels of behaviour of for certain misdemeanours (for example life-endangering ones).

They do not spank everytime they want their kid to obey, so how is this teaching that beating people up is the way to get their own way? where is the proof that this is what children who are spanked understand? No proof = no fact.

/pedant

Ok.
Tell me exactly what the action of hitting them teaches them please?

[monster]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Ok.
Tell me exactly what the action of hitting them teaches them please?

Tell me exactly where I said it teaches them anything. You were the one who said it teaches them something.

Teaches him one thing. Violence is an answer and when you are bigger than someone beating them up is how you get your way.

It may do that. It may not. It ain't fact, though. I merely stated some occasions which may or may not rebuff your "fact".

Given that some parents spank selectively, does it teach the children that violence is the way to get your own way? Or does it teach them that bigger people are unpredictably violent? Or does it teach them that some misdemeanours are worse than others? Or does it teach them nothing at all? Your call. But whatever you decide, your certainty does not make it a fact. it is a fact that some parents spank selectively -look back up this thread and the previous one for proof.

[Stormieweather]

Don't all parents spank selectively? "I only spank them when they need it", or "I only spank them when they're really bad", or "I only spank them when they piss me off".

I think children learn MORE from what they observe than what they're told, particularly if the two contradict each other. Lying is wrong! Tell that bill collecter I'm not home~ Don't hit your little brother! *smack*.

What do kids do that is so terrible that they deserve to be hit for it? Would I accept it if someone hit ME to teach me something? So what makes it ok to hit someone smaller and more defenseless than I am? I am supposed to be my children's safe haven, their protector, not someone who physically HURTS them.

Personally, I think spanking or whatever cute euphemism you'd like to use for it, is often used because it's easier. Talking to your kids, teaching them by example and being consistantly vigilent in parenting is hard work. It's so much easier to just hit 'em, make 'em sorry right NOW, and get on with whatever you were doing.

Stormie

[Aliantha]

My kids have both felt the sting of a slap once or twice. If they're going to give me lip, they're going to find out it's unacceptable, and they're going to find out the hard way.

To me, people only 'obey rules' because they know they're get into trouble for not doing it.

Teaching kids morals and self discipline is another thing.

Teaching kids that if they want to be smart and tough, there's always going to be someone who's smarter and tougher is also a good lesson.

Fortunately, neither one of them has caused me too much grief since they learned to care about others.

Originally Posted by monster

Tell me exactly where I said it teaches them anything. You were the one who said it teaches them something.


It may do that. It may not. It ain't fact, though. I merely stated some occasions which may or may not rebuff your "fact".

Given that some parents spank selectively, does it teach the children that violence is the way to get your own way? Or does it teach them that bigger people are unpredictably violent? Or does it teach them that some misdemeanours are worse than others? Or does it teach them nothing at all? Your call. But whatever you decide, your certainty does not make it a fact. it is a fact that some parents spank selectively -look back up this thread and the previous one for proof.

Everything a child sees, hears and experiences, especially from their parents teaches them something.
You, as their parent decide what that is. That is your job.
Other than trying to avoid saying that... you said nothing.

What do kids do that is so terrible that they deserve to be hit for it?

Exactly.

[DanaC]

If it's unacceptable to hit an adult, then it is unacceptable to hit a child. It seems utterly bizarre to me that children, society's most vulnerable members, are the only ones society deems it acceptable to hit.

Parents who hit their children, aren't necessairly violent, or bad parents. Most, I suspect, do it out of love, and/or desperation. It's completely understandable. Plenty of parents start out saying they'll never hit their child, then find themselves slapping a hand that's just edged dangerously near to a naked flame, or a leg that's just run dangerously near a busy road.

But not hitting your kids, is something worth striving for, I think. Sometimes our instinctive (and probably very ancient) parenting impulses aren't the best/only way to deal with something. We routinely control our anger/upset/annoyance around adults.

[DucksNuts]

I'm a smacker when it is warranted, and by warranted I mean that the first 2 steps that make up my discipline routine went unheeded.

Consistency is the key in my book, but I agree with ToG that different methods work for different kids.

I am more than willing to discipline children in public too.

I have found the naughty corner to be very portable.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

To me, people only 'obey rules' because they know they're get into trouble for not doing it.

So someone will never obey a rule to get a reward?

Originally Posted by DucksNuts

I'm a smacker when it is warranted, and by warranted I mean that the first 2 steps that make up my discipline routine went unheeded.

Consistency is the key in my book, but I agree with ToG that different methods work for different kids.

I am more than willing to discipline children in public too.

I have found the naughty corner to be very portable.

I guess it's ok to hit your wive then, as long as it is your third request and one is consistent. Even in public.

Parents who hit their children, aren't necessairly violent

LOL!!!

It is only "understandable" if they get help. I covered the fear response, again, get help, it is still not acceptable and just makes a bad situation far worse.
We control our anger around adults because they hit back. When I was in my 20's I taught a 16 yr old to beat up his dad. Something I am still very proud of.

My mother-in-law hit my son on the hand once, took us two weeks to stop him from hitting.
My parents spanked me one time, I set their bed on fire, I was four.
I was a good kid and was always very upset if you told me that you were disappointed in me and that I had done something wrong and understood why, once you described it.
Hit me, and all I wanted was vengeance and I was right.

[Cloud]

I think as long as the punishment is consisent and never done in anger it's fine.

Again, to teach them what?