Seriousness That Changed You

[monster]

...start communicating in real time, in person. Go see him, call him, take him for a beer/whatever is legal there.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Give a teenage boy an ultimatum, and 9 times out of 10 he will violate it.

Not in my fathers house.

Originally Posted by Stormieweather

Kids learn what they see.

From reading this story, I see in OC's son, a child who has been rejected, abandoned, discarded, shuffled around, and generally taught that he is a burden, rather than a joy and a pleasure. He has most likely seen and been a target of abuse (the man raising him did not go from a responsible, kind, loving person to an axe murderer with no stops in between). My perception is that this child has been been taught to manipulate, disrespect, and to use hostility in an attempt to control his surroundings and those he is in contact with.

No where in this story do I see where this child was nurtured, taught to reason and discuss, given stability or a healthy role model to learn from. Does anyone love him? Respect him and his choices? Teach him to respect and love himself?

Calling his girlfriend Ms Thang is highly disrespectful and contemptous. Dismissing her due to her upbringing and background is pretty snotty and pretentious, given that none of us are perfect. OC has not done a very good job of making wise choices, so it doesn't seem to me that she has any room to condemn another person for theirs. Calling him Boy is depersonalizing and humiliating. He is not a piece of furniture to be dropped off at Uncle Jack's when your life has no room for him. Or discarded when you think he isn't filling YOUR needs adequately.

This kid didn't ask to be brought into the world. OC made that choice. Once she made that choice, she was responsible for him. OC could have chosen to give him up for adoption, ensuring a better chance at a healthy, functional life, but no...she chose to dump him at someone's house who had no ties to him...a person with no motivation to adequately care for him and raise him lovingly and responsibly.

I am simply amazed that he has turned out as well as he has. He must be one very tough cookie to have survived the life he has been subjected to (but did NOT deserve).

At 18, a young man probably doesn't know all the reasons he is attracted to the things he is. OC had the perfect opportunity to bond a little and have a reasonable discussion about the origins and meaning behind the necklace, but she chose instead to attempt to control her son's choices through verbal violence and manipulation. I am completely unsurprised at his response. If that incident is representative of the interaction between the two of them, both are probably better off without being in each others lives. I can only hope that the legacy that this child has been given does not get passed on to the next generation.

In case anyone is wondering where I am coming from with all this, I had a son out of wedlock, 18 years ago. His father never had anything to do with him, or me after conception. I knew that I was responsible for this human being and how his life turned out. I dropped out of college, worked two jobs for many years to support us, and gave up many personal desires and goals in order to be the very best mother that I could be. We've been through a lot together, he and I, but I'll tell you one thing...he has never doubted that I love him deeply and will always be there for him, no matter how much I disapprove of his choices. I have always treated him with dignity and respect and in return, he treats me the same. I've taken in teenagers whose families have thrown them out because they were 'uncontrollable'. Guess what? They don't need forceful control, they need respect and dignity. I give it to them and they respond in kind.

And if my son came home wearing a gf's Wiccan necklace, I would not force him to take it off, even if it meant nothing whatsoever to him. He is 18 and I would never dream of trying to control his personal choices to such a degree.

Violence breeds violence. Hostility breeds hostility. Disrespect breeds disrespect. This child learned all of that from his family of origin.

Stormie

Which is why we will never hit my child. My family is having a hard time with it.

A pentagram is an early Christian symbol. Many flowers and fruits are considered holy because of it. The five wounds of Christ are symbolized by it.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

..... I don't even know how to respond to that.....

If I've misread the situation, I apologize. I know it is impossible to paint the complete picture with words.

[Deuce]

Originally Posted by grant

"Be kind, for everyone you know is fighting a great/hard battle."
-- Philo of Alexandria

Well put, grant.

[Perry Winkle]

Originally Posted by Deuce

Well put, grant.

Thanks, I'm such a quote whore.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by grant

Thanks, I'm such a quote whore.

I wouldn't classify myself in those terms, but I do collect aphorisms. I have pages and pages of them. I'm not a specialist, though; I like proverbs, quotes, aphorisms, rhymes, etc. If the content of the passage has personal meaning to me, I collect it. I like the one referenced above. Good one.

[LabRat]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

i'm a middle child. my brother who is 6 years younger, had an entirely different environment to deal with.

Originally Posted by glatt

our firstborn had our undivided attention for 3 years. Our second born didn't get the same amount of attention, and we have been much more laid back. The two have different personalities.

Originally Posted by lumberjim

being raised in the same house doesn't mean you were raised the same way. parents treat kids differently. it's just a hard goddamned fact of life.

I agree, but also contend that there are inherent differences in each child also.

I let a bit of frustration at my brother's lack of caring for anything but himself cloud my judgement there. I view him as a total loser, and most I know who have met us both agree. There is bad blood there and I apologise for not being more unbiased(?)

Carry on.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by LabRat

I agree, but also contend that there are inherent differences in each child also.

I let a bit of frustration at my brother's lack of caring for anything but himself cloud my judgement there. I view him as a total loser, and most I know who have met us both agree.

I'm in almost the exact same situation, LabRat. Everyone who has ever met my brother and me has marveled that the same parents could have somehow raised both of us. It's actually made me a little terrified that one or more of my children will manage to turn out like him despite our best efforts.

People say the same about my parents raising me... I am opposite from both of them, in different ways.

[Perry Winkle]

While we're talking about relative differences --

My brother and I are two sides of a coin. He's the face and I'm the tail.

I look like my father, he looks like my mother. I act like my mother, he acts like my father. He's outgoing, I'm not; he's a creature of outward focus, I'm a creature of inward focus.

We have so much shared life context that we can talk for hours, and you won't understand most of it.

Even though we're 6 years different in age we're as close as twins.

[cklabyrinth]

A few events that really changed me were when my parents were divorced when I was almost 11. One day I came home from school and half of my family's belongings were gone. My mother had a moving company come in that day and take all of her stuff, including the bed and our TV. I remember standing in the kitchen and crying with my father for reasons I didn't fully understand at the time. As the next six months passed and I had to explain what happened to my younger cousins and inquiring minds at school I only began to understand why.

The second most serious change in my life occurred a few years later when my older brother punched me in the nose for the first time. When he joined the Marines a year and a half ago I can't say I was surprised. He used me to learn how to inflict pain upon others so it's the perfect calling for him. I wish him luck.

The third was on September 11th. All of my remaining innocence was lost that morning when in first period physics the teacher in the room next door came in and told us to turn on the radio. For the rest of the day in my three remaining classes all we did was listen to the conflicting newsreports that were mostly conjecture.

The fourth was on a trip to Switzerland a year later when a table of Swiss people my age grilled me on my political stance about the United States' foreign policy, especially regarding Afghanistan, our relations with Israel and many other subjects. They were more educated about the U.S. than I was. I had no answer to almost all of their questions; it was the most embarassing experience of my life and even to this day I wish I've done more to educate myself on our policies. Needless to say, I've learned quite a bit from reading some of the posts on this forum.

Now that that's off my chest, I really like these forums. Probably not the place to say it as Ibram will probably remark, but I don't care. I've enjoyed myself thus far.

Oh... I have no memory of most of my childhood.

[skysidhe]

My heart goes out to Richlevy and Elspode. I understand the heartache involved for wanting for them so much. It is a grieving process.

I don't think this is the heart ache that changed me because my internal hope always sees me through.

I think anyone that has been in an abusive relationship in person or on the internet can say it must be the most seriously negative thing to happen.

[OnyxCougar]

I am grieving again over the same loss as I have grieved before. With a difference, now.

For those who have been involved with this thread, The Boy (now 24 years old) moved from his baby-mama's (which was never confirmed) to Texas, to stay with the family that raised him the first 7 years. 2 years later, he called me and asked me to come home. After much discussion, I said he could come home and stay rent free for 2 months, then if he chose to stay in my home he'd have to either go to college or pay rent. He came home, we got along great. After flirting with the idea of dating Miss Thang again, met a new girl, and they have since gotten married.

The Boy has ever been the Troll. He says things just to get a rise out of them. If he knows you, he knows where to hit you to hurt you the most. He's a sniper. He posted some trollish shit on his FB and I took the bait, then realized it was Trolling and decided that before the situation escalated out of control I should just unfriend him to prevent more drama. My mistake was posting a note to my FB about why I defriended him, when I should have left it the hell alone. He saw it, and lost his fucking mind. I got an extremely shitty letter filled with straight out lies, disrespect and sniping. He ended it by disowning me, my mother, my sister and his cousins. I haven't spoken to him since Sep 12. Email, phone or otherwise. I have no intention of ever speaking to him again. Ever. His wife told my mother that even if he and I reconciled, SHE would tell any children they may have that their grandmother died before they were born, and I would surely never see them. This is not a decision I made lightly. And I noticed that once I excised him from my life, the majority of my personal drama went away. It was the calm before the storm.

Two nights ago he shows up at my home with two police reports, dated 1995 about Travis. He says that Raven, the woman who has the website with Travis' picture on it, contacted him through Shaun's FB page and she knows my name, the names of my children, and God knows what else. The Boy described her as Travis' "girlfriend", and said that she has printed pictures of his (the Boy's) wedding and given them to Travis. The Boy did not make his FB private until after he had disowned me, so I wouldn't be able to see his FB stuff.

He says he is in contact with Raven now, and she emailed him these police reports, and he knew I'd wanted them since the event took place. He said he has more at his home and could bring them over if I wanted. I told him I'd think about it, I thanked him for bringing them over. He left.

I had been told by the detectives that Travis had lured Steve away, that Travis had made hundreds of little cuts all over Steve's body and put salt and lemon juice ont he wounds. That Travis had cut Steve's leg off at the knee and he bled to death. That was the story I had heard and believed for a little under 20 years now.

That wasn't the whole story.

I did not get the warning from my son that I am about to give you. The following link is to a page of the police report he gave me, last names redacted (R= Travis' cellmate relating what Travis told them. P = Travis, and N = Steve SD=Travis' wife at the time). It is graphic, it is disturbing, and it has ripped open wide a wound I thought long healed. You will not be able to un-read this and page2.

I haven't slept more than a few hours at a time since. I burst into tears at the slightest thing. I'm a mess. I don't know what to do. I mean, there's nothing I *can* do, but I think I'm starting to really go batshit crazy. Like, time to visit Wolf at work crazy. How do I assimilate this information into the grieving I've already done? My husband keeps saying that Steve didn't die twice, that the only thing that's changed is how it happened, and logically, I get that. Emotionally, I'm going to need a padded room. Preferably one that doesn't smell like urine or vomet. That'd be great, thanks.