Christians and Pagans - Page 4

Elspode · 09-08-2003, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whit
      Okay Ep, so if our minds are part of the order and requesting the abundance is natural... So, is nature pushing our buttons to make us take a balancing action? That borders on predestination. Or would we be enjoying abundance like a wolf enjoying deer overpopulation and thus bringing things back to balance only to risk hunger next year?
      I know this is getting pretty deep in, but I'm much more interested in the psychology than the trapings of any given religion, philosophy or belief system.

As with all spellwork, asking for more abundance requires intent. I mean, you could stand by and do nothing and let the universe take you where it will.

The analogy of being in the ocean comes to mind. You can float and wait for the tides to hopefully land you on that distant island, or you can swim and get yourself there.

As to the deer/wolf analogy, if there are too many deer, then there will be more wolves. If they then overfeed, there will be both fewer deer and fewer wolves, and a balance will be once again achieved. All of this is a process, not a goal unto itself. It is part of the ebb and flow.

Whit · 09-19-2003, 11:12 PM

      I've been meaning to ask you witches, do you really weigh the same as a duck? (If you don't get the reference let it slide)

Elspode · 09-20-2003, 01:07 PM

It's a fair cop...

Dagney · 09-22-2003, 02:24 PM

Hope you had a Blessed Mabon Elspode and OnyxCougar (and anyone else who may follow that path but I just don't know it!).

Care to share how you celebrated? I've been doing a little bit of 'book research' on the day, but would like to hear what a practitioner thinks of it.

Dagney
(who is really looking for it to be 5pm ASAP, with a cold beer, and something a little bit stiffer....Stoli perhaps?)

Whit · 09-22-2003, 02:47 PM

      Hey Dagney, while we're waiting for one of them to show up and share with us, how 'bout some outsider info? I've never even heard of it.

Dagney · 09-22-2003, 02:49 PM

I'll dig out my info when I'm at home this evening, I'm currently doing research on Mabon as well as Samhain. (Although I'll probably not be able to celebrate either this year :\)

Elspode · 09-22-2003, 03:44 PM

Luna Lushede Coven held our Mabon celebration at the park right down the street, providing a great deal of amusement for the twenty or so people who were playing softball nearby. We had 42 in attendance, a pretty good average for this particular Sabbat.

While we have our normal coven Full Moon and New Moon Esbats every month privately, our Sabbats are always open to the public, held in a public place (because our house is nowhere near big enough), and pretty much indistinguishable from your average Baptist church outing, except for the robes, standing in a large circle, and....okay, it isn't at all like a Baptist outing, except that we have a potluck afterward. Except for on Mabon.

A few years ago, we decided that Mabon should be a time for us to share the bounty of the harvest with a needy Pagan family or individual in our community, so instead of having a ritual and a feast afterward, we ask people to bring nonperishable food and other items to donate, and the cash donations we usually collect are also given directly and totally to the beneficiary (this money is normally used strictly to finance the rituals themselves as we buy the main dish, and provide all plates, cups, ice, plasticware, napkins and hall rental where applicable-we are a non-profit organization in the State of Missouri, and no, that doesn't mean we don't pay normal taxes...we do, lots of them).

This year, our beneficiary was an individual who has been out of work for over a year, and was in imminent danger of losing his home. Happily, he started a new job last month, and things were looking up, but he still needed the $85.00 we collected, as well as the entire back-end of the Explorer load of grocery items. He was very grateful, and once again, we feel like we've done a good Mabon deed.

Our ritual at this time of year honors the God, who has 'died' and begun his journey to the Underworld. We offer thanks for the bounty of the second harvest (the fruit harvest, as it were) and for all the good things we have enjoyed throughout the last turning of The Wheel. In years past, we have placed bird seed in our cauldron upon the altar, and attendees come up, take a handful, and meditate upon the bounty they've received in the past year, then cast the seed to the Earth, asking for blessings for the coming year, symbolically sharing their bounty with the Earth and its creatures.

This year, we did something different. I bought a buttload of cornstalks, and we piled them up inside the circle. We asked everyone to spiral in, hand-in-hand, pick up a stalk, then place it against the tree that was at the center of our ritual space. As they did so, they said aloud the things they were thankful for in the past year, and their hopes for the coming year. In this way, we pool our energies and share our blessings, leaving the stalks gathered together as a symbol of unity and good will.

We also dedicated two coveners and another community member to the Wiccan path. We do a lot of these dedications throughout the year during sabbats. Dedication simply means that you vow to study and follow the Wiccan path for a year and a day. It is not a lifetime committment, but it is the first step for those wishing to make Wicca their paths, so it is kind of cool. We also provide a white cord for each new dedicant to wear on their ritual garb.

It was a very good ritual, despite the fact that our socialization afterward was cut short by a rainstorm.

We have quite a few people who attend our open rituals regularly (we have had as many as 70-75 at Samhain and Yule celebrations), and we also had several new faces this time around. We've gotten several comments about how nice the proceedings were, and that makes us feel pretty good. People have a need to come together with a common bond, and even though many of our attendees paths vary a bit, we still unify for Sabbats as one group, united in acknowledging the Goddess, the God, and the turning of The Wheel.

Not a bad way to spend an afternoon, if I do say so myself.

Elspode · 09-22-2003, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dagney
I'll dig out my info when I'm at home this evening, I'm currently doing research on Mabon as well as Samhain. (Although I'll probably not be able to celebrate either this year :\)

But why not?

Dagney · 09-22-2003, 03:53 PM

A few reasons..

1. I don't feel like I know 'enough' to do it right (and I don't want to offend anyOne)

2. I'm moving home to live with my "VERY" religious Mother who would have yet another episode needing me to take her to the ER if she found out I was considering Wicca to be my primary faith rather than the 'hybrid' religion I follow now. (A blend of Wicca and Christianity)

3. I'm extremely stressed with the Implementation of HIPAA which has my brain so scrambled and my energies so disorganized, I think I may do more harm than good.

Dagney

OnyxCougar · 09-22-2003, 03:59 PM

**sigh**

I didn't celebrate Mabon this year. I left everything with my fiance in Vegas except my favorite Tarot deck. He came out to NC 3 weeks later, and put our stuff (including my big box of Wiccan stuff) in the shed in back of his apartment. His roommate was gonna mail it to us as we sent money.

Well, we found out yesterday that said roommate up and left Vegas, and all of our stuff in the shed. Skipped rent, too. He says that the landlord, he supposes, went through the shed and if our stuff wasn't taken or sold, it was thrown away.

So I have to start all over. My dirt from Stonehenge (that I collected myself on the full moon). My marble pyramids that I hand sanded only on the new moon. About $150 of candles. My altar cloth. My athame. My shells collected from the Mediterranean, seasalt, $20 worth of insence. The runes I cut and carved and painted and lacquered. All gone.

Steve's bass guitar, signed by Yngwie Malmstein. (sp). My guitar. Video tapes of my kids when they weren't born yet and me in my band in '91. All gone.

Yes, I can get the material things back. But I can't get the investment of time and energy back. If we would have known he was going to leave we could have sent him money for a storage unit. I could have called my father and had him drive the 2 hours to pick it up.

Anyway. No. I didn't celebrate Mabon this year.

On the GTG thread a while back, there was mention of a Cellar GTG for Samhain. Anyone got an update/plan on that?

Elspode · 09-22-2003, 04:05 PM

Holy shit! Have you contacted the landlord to verify all this? Maybe the stuff can still be redeemed.

Losing magickal items *and* musical items is too damn much to bear, IMHO. I'd be equally pissed if I lost either my athame or my guitar. Okay, more pissed about the guitar, 'cause it was stupid expensive, but you know what I mean.

OnyxCougar · 09-22-2003, 04:25 PM

Thought of that, but apperantly the landlord doesn't have a phone number, and isn't listed.

Elspode · 09-23-2003, 12:25 AM

I know I don't need to tell you this, but you don't need anything to celebrate the Sabbat other than yourself, your mind and your spirit.

Happy Mabon, OC...you have reason to rejoice...and you can tell him I said so!

OnyxCougar · 09-23-2003, 07:56 AM

Man...I had this whole big long post wrritten and Mozilla dumped on it. Got a NETSCAPE error report/generator window. Don't know why I'd get a NS thing when I don't have NS on my computer... **peer @ UT and Dave**

Anyway, they VERY shortened version is that Sunday I was pissed off and crying all day, which was follewed by a tension headache. I was in NO mood to celebrate. The Rede and Law were far from my mind as I comtemplated all the nasty things I could do to his ex-roomie.

But now that I've calmed down and although I still have the sense of loss, Steve assures me that we'll go to Stonehenge on our "renewal honeymoon" in 5 years and get more dirt. I'm not so worried about the magickal stuff, I can replace it. It's the irreplaceables I'm still upset about. **sigh**

Looking forward to Samhain, tho, even if it's skyclad holding a butterknife for an Athame. I'll come up with something.

**hug Els** Thanks for the good thoughts.

Elspode · 09-23-2003, 12:53 PM

Aw, shucks. State of mind is really important in ritual, 'tis true. Glad yours is improved.

May the ex-roomie learn the lessons which he needs to learn...and soon.

09-19-2003, 11:12 PM	#47
Whit Umm ... yeah. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 949	I've been meaning to ask you witches, do you really weigh the same as a duck? (If you don't get the reference let it slide) __________________ A friend will help you move. A true friend will help you move a body.

09-20-2003, 01:07 PM	#48
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	It's a fair cop... __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

09-22-2003, 02:24 PM	#49
Dagney The Prodigal Brat Returneth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: North Cackalacky Posts: 1,107	By the By Hope you had a Blessed Mabon Elspode and OnyxCougar (and anyone else who may follow that path but I just don't know it!). Care to share how you celebrated? I've been doing a little bit of 'book research' on the day, but would like to hear what a practitioner thinks of it. Dagney (who is really looking for it to be 5pm ASAP, with a cold beer, and something a little bit stiffer....Stoli perhaps?) __________________ The Constitution gives every American the right to make a total fool out of himself. But that doesn't mean you need to.

09-22-2003, 02:47 PM	#50
Whit Umm ... yeah. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 949	Hey Dagney, while we're waiting for one of them to show up and share with us, how 'bout some outsider info? I've never even heard of it. __________________ A friend will help you move. A true friend will help you move a body.

09-22-2003, 02:49 PM	#51
Dagney The Prodigal Brat Returneth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: North Cackalacky Posts: 1,107	I'll dig out my info when I'm at home this evening, I'm currently doing research on Mabon as well as Samhain. (Although I'll probably not be able to celebrate either this year :\) __________________ The Constitution gives every American the right to make a total fool out of himself. But that doesn't mean you need to.

09-22-2003, 03:44 PM	#52
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	Luna Lushede Coven held our Mabon celebration at the park right down the street, providing a great deal of amusement for the twenty or so people who were playing softball nearby. We had 42 in attendance, a pretty good average for this particular Sabbat. While we have our normal coven Full Moon and New Moon Esbats every month privately, our Sabbats are always open to the public, held in a public place (because our house is nowhere near big enough), and pretty much indistinguishable from your average Baptist church outing, except for the robes, standing in a large circle, and....okay, it isn't at all like a Baptist outing, except that we have a potluck afterward. Except for on Mabon. A few years ago, we decided that Mabon should be a time for us to share the bounty of the harvest with a needy Pagan family or individual in our community, so instead of having a ritual and a feast afterward, we ask people to bring nonperishable food and other items to donate, and the cash donations we usually collect are also given directly and totally to the beneficiary (this money is normally used strictly to finance the rituals themselves as we buy the main dish, and provide all plates, cups, ice, plasticware, napkins and hall rental where applicable-we are a non-profit organization in the State of Missouri, and no, that doesn't mean we don't pay normal taxes...we do, lots of them). This year, our beneficiary was an individual who has been out of work for over a year, and was in imminent danger of losing his home. Happily, he started a new job last month, and things were looking up, but he still needed the $85.00 we collected, as well as the entire back-end of the Explorer load of grocery items. He was very grateful, and once again, we feel like we've done a good Mabon deed. Our ritual at this time of year honors the God, who has 'died' and begun his journey to the Underworld. We offer thanks for the bounty of the second harvest (the fruit harvest, as it were) and for all the good things we have enjoyed throughout the last turning of The Wheel. In years past, we have placed bird seed in our cauldron upon the altar, and attendees come up, take a handful, and meditate upon the bounty they've received in the past year, then cast the seed to the Earth, asking for blessings for the coming year, symbolically sharing their bounty with the Earth and its creatures. This year, we did something different. I bought a buttload of cornstalks, and we piled them up inside the circle. We asked everyone to spiral in, hand-in-hand, pick up a stalk, then place it against the tree that was at the center of our ritual space. As they did so, they said aloud the things they were thankful for in the past year, and their hopes for the coming year. In this way, we pool our energies and share our blessings, leaving the stalks gathered together as a symbol of unity and good will. We also dedicated two coveners and another community member to the Wiccan path. We do a lot of these dedications throughout the year during sabbats. Dedication simply means that you vow to study and follow the Wiccan path for a year and a day. It is not a lifetime committment, but it is the first step for those wishing to make Wicca their paths, so it is kind of cool. We also provide a white cord for each new dedicant to wear on their ritual garb. It was a very good ritual, despite the fact that our socialization afterward was cut short by a rainstorm. We have quite a few people who attend our open rituals regularly (we have had as many as 70-75 at Samhain and Yule celebrations), and we also had several new faces this time around. We've gotten several comments about how nice the proceedings were, and that makes us feel pretty good. People have a need to come together with a common bond, and even though many of our attendees paths vary a bit, we still unify for Sabbats as one group, united in acknowledging the Goddess, the God, and the turning of The Wheel. Not a bad way to spend an afternoon, if I do say so myself. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

09-22-2003, 03:53 PM	#54
Dagney The Prodigal Brat Returneth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: North Cackalacky Posts: 1,107	A few reasons.. 1. I don't feel like I know 'enough' to do it right (and I don't want to offend anyOne) 2. I'm moving home to live with my "VERY" religious Mother who would have yet another episode needing me to take her to the ER if she found out I was considering Wicca to be my primary faith rather than the 'hybrid' religion I follow now. (A blend of Wicca and Christianity) 3. I'm extremely stressed with the Implementation of HIPAA which has my brain so scrambled and my energies so disorganized, I think I may do more harm than good. Dagney __________________ The Constitution gives every American the right to make a total fool out of himself. But that doesn't mean you need to.

09-22-2003, 03:59 PM	#55
OnyxCougar Junior Master Dwellar Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Kingdom of Atlantia Posts: 2,979	sigh I didn't celebrate Mabon this year. I left everything with my fiance in Vegas except my favorite Tarot deck. He came out to NC 3 weeks later, and put our stuff (including my big box of Wiccan stuff) in the shed in back of his apartment. His roommate was gonna mail it to us as we sent money. Well, we found out yesterday that said roommate up and left Vegas, and all of our stuff in the shed. Skipped rent, too. He says that the landlord, he supposes, went through the shed and if our stuff wasn't taken or sold, it was thrown away. So I have to start all over. My dirt from Stonehenge (that I collected myself on the full moon). My marble pyramids that I hand sanded only on the new moon. About $150 of candles. My altar cloth. My athame. My shells collected from the Mediterranean, seasalt, $20 worth of insence. The runes I cut and carved and painted and lacquered. All gone. Steve's bass guitar, signed by Yngwie Malmstein. (sp). My guitar. Video tapes of my kids when they weren't born yet and me in my band in '91. All gone. Yes, I can get the material things back. But I can't get the investment of time and energy back. If we would have known he was going to leave we could have sent him money for a storage unit. I could have called my father and had him drive the 2 hours to pick it up. Anyway. No. I didn't celebrate Mabon this year. On the GTG thread a while back, there was mention of a Cellar GTG for Samhain. Anyone got an update/plan on that? __________________ Impotentes defendere libertatem non possunt. "Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth." ~Franklin D. Roosevelt

09-22-2003, 04:05 PM	#56
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	Holy shit! Have you contacted the landlord to verify all this? Maybe the stuff can still be redeemed. Losing magickal items and musical items is too damn much to bear, IMHO. I'd be equally pissed if I lost either my athame or my guitar. Okay, more pissed about the guitar, 'cause it was stupid expensive, but you know what I mean. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

09-22-2003, 04:25 PM	#57
OnyxCougar Junior Master Dwellar Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Kingdom of Atlantia Posts: 2,979	Thought of that, but apperantly the landlord doesn't have a phone number, and isn't listed. __________________ Impotentes defendere libertatem non possunt. "Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth." ~Franklin D. Roosevelt

09-23-2003, 12:25 AM	#58
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	I know I don't need to tell you this, but you don't need anything to celebrate the Sabbat other than yourself, your mind and your spirit. Happy Mabon, OC...you have reason to rejoice...and you can tell him I said so! __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

09-23-2003, 07:56 AM	#59
OnyxCougar Junior Master Dwellar Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Kingdom of Atlantia Posts: 2,979	Man...I had this whole big long post wrritten and Mozilla dumped on it. Got a NETSCAPE error report/generator window. Don't know why I'd get a NS thing when I don't have NS on my computer... peer @ UT and Dave Anyway, they VERY shortened version is that Sunday I was pissed off and crying all day, which was follewed by a tension headache. I was in NO mood to celebrate. The Rede and Law were far from my mind as I comtemplated all the nasty things I could do to his ex-roomie. But now that I've calmed down and although I still have the sense of loss, Steve assures me that we'll go to Stonehenge on our "renewal honeymoon" in 5 years and get more dirt. I'm not so worried about the magickal stuff, I can replace it. It's the irreplaceables I'm still upset about. sigh Looking forward to Samhain, tho, even if it's skyclad holding a butterknife for an Athame. I'll come up with something. hug Els Thanks for the good thoughts. __________________ Impotentes defendere libertatem non possunt. "Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth." ~Franklin D. Roosevelt

09-23-2003, 12:53 PM	#60
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	Aw, shucks. State of mind is really important in ritual, 'tis true. Glad yours is improved. May the ex-roomie learn the lessons which he needs to learn...and soon. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

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