Conundrum

Aliantha · 11-23-2007, 07:18 PM

Dazza has a student doing her thesis on ways of managing the levels of carp in freshwater rivers in Australia. Carp are a huge problem here and are causing a lot of decay to the habitat of some of our native fish. They are also contributing to the silting up of many rivers because they suck the mud from the river banks which causes them to collapse which then obviously makes the river shallower and wider etc. Anyway, the thesis topic is very relevant as far as her environmental management degree is concerned.

The problem she has is this.

The university policy is that any animals used for experiments may not have death as an 'end point'. While this seems fair and rational, the problem is that the student has had to harvest carp from rivers (good for the environment and totally legal because they're considered to be a noxious pest) but she can't release them back into the rivers alive because they're considered to be a noxious pest.

So you see the conundrum she is in.

The only good solution Dazza and I have been able to think of is that perhaps she could give the carp to someone as 'pets' and then that person could let them die.

What do you think?

Clodfobble · 11-23-2007, 08:06 PM

Can carp be eaten? Or does being food still count as generic "death?"

Aliantha · 11-23-2007, 08:09 PM

It still counts as death. Carp taste like crap in general too, although some people seem to think they can make them taste good. My opinion is that making them taste good generally means you totally hide the flavour of the fish with other strong flavours.

zippyt · 11-23-2007, 08:14 PM

skeet shooting ???

Clodfobble · 11-23-2007, 08:18 PM

Maybe a school classroom would like a few? How many does she have to get rid of?

Aliantha · 11-23-2007, 08:22 PM

There's about 200 or so. Might need a few schools to participate, but that's a great idea.

Keep them coming!

zippyt · 11-23-2007, 08:23 PM

turn them over to fish and game , let them deal with them

Aliantha · 11-23-2007, 08:28 PM

That's a good idea too Zippy. It'll need to be looked into because it might not be possible, in fact the student may be liable to be fined for keeping them alive. Still not a bad idea though and worth a bit of investigation.

zippyt · 11-23-2007, 08:37 PM

she could be fined for keeping them ???

Tag and release them ,

Just tag them with a brick

Aliantha · 11-23-2007, 08:42 PM

well depending on how pedantic the government body is, they may consider her to be cultivating them if they happen to breed while she has them etc.

Dazza would advise her to do a reasonable amount of research on that one, but still thinks it's a good option to look into.

He likes the brick idea too but thinks it might not fall within the parameters of 'legal' for this problem.

zippyt · 11-23-2007, 08:47 PM

OH I have it !!!!

Take them out on your boat and release them with a hook in the as bait !!!!

Aliantha · 11-24-2007, 01:21 AM

Hmmmm...don't think that'll work mate. Nice try though.

11-24-2007, 02:30 AM

Quote:

The university policy is that any animals used for experiments may not have death as an 'end point'. While this seems fair and rational,

In what way?

Ibby · 11-24-2007, 02:44 AM

...in the way that killing animals is wrong?

11-24-2007, 02:56 AM

In no way is it wrong.
They are not indigenous to that ecosystem and are harmful, they should all just be wiped-out as efficiently as possible.
On our ranch we shoot all feral cats and pigs on sight.
If you work on our property it is part of your job.
Even if you are vegan the glue that holds your shoes together, your make-up, car parts and the celluloid the film is made of when you go to the movies is made of animal parts.
Eggs are used to make your vaccinations and animals are used, and killed, to save your loved-ones every day.
I hunted for years to control populations of animals so those left would not starve or get ill due to declining space and/or predators.
I take it you don't kill the mosquito or biting fly on your arm, roaches in your home? Of course not, that would be "wrong".
It is not wrong and there is no conundrum... kill the pests.
If research is being done it should be on how to kill all of them.

11-23-2007, 07:18 PM	#1
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Conundrum Dazza has a student doing her thesis on ways of managing the levels of carp in freshwater rivers in Australia. Carp are a huge problem here and are causing a lot of decay to the habitat of some of our native fish. They are also contributing to the silting up of many rivers because they suck the mud from the river banks which causes them to collapse which then obviously makes the river shallower and wider etc. Anyway, the thesis topic is very relevant as far as her environmental management degree is concerned. The problem she has is this. The university policy is that any animals used for experiments may not have death as an 'end point'. While this seems fair and rational, the problem is that the student has had to harvest carp from rivers (good for the environment and totally legal because they're considered to be a noxious pest) but she can't release them back into the rivers alive because they're considered to be a noxious pest. So you see the conundrum she is in. The only good solution Dazza and I have been able to think of is that perhaps she could give the carp to someone as 'pets' and then that person could let them die. What do you think? __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

11-23-2007, 08:09 PM	#3
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	It still counts as death. Carp taste like crap in general too, although some people seem to think they can make them taste good. My opinion is that making them taste good generally means you totally hide the flavour of the fish with other strong flavours. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

11-23-2007, 08:14 PM	#4
zippyt LONG LIVE KING ZIPPY! per Feetz Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Arkansas Posts: 7,661	skeet shooting ??? __________________ "Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. " Brother Dave Gardner

11-23-2007, 08:22 PM	#6
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	There's about 200 or so. Might need a few schools to participate, but that's a great idea. Keep them coming! __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

11-23-2007, 08:23 PM	#7
zippyt LONG LIVE KING ZIPPY! per Feetz Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Arkansas Posts: 7,661	turn them over to fish and game , let them deal with them __________________ "Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. " Brother Dave Gardner

11-23-2007, 08:06 PM	#2
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	Can carp be eaten? Or does being food still count as generic "death?"

11-23-2007, 08:18 PM	#5
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	Maybe a school classroom would like a few? How many does she have to get rid of?

11-23-2007, 08:28 PM	#8
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	That's a good idea too Zippy. It'll need to be looked into because it might not be possible, in fact the student may be liable to be fined for keeping them alive. Still not a bad idea though and worth a bit of investigation. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

11-23-2007, 08:37 PM	#9
zippyt LONG LIVE KING ZIPPY! per Feetz Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Arkansas Posts: 7,661	she could be fined for keeping them ??? Tag and release them , Just tag them with a brick __________________ "Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. " Brother Dave Gardner

11-23-2007, 08:42 PM	#10
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	well depending on how pedantic the government body is, they may consider her to be cultivating them if they happen to breed while she has them etc. Dazza would advise her to do a reasonable amount of research on that one, but still thinks it's a good option to look into. He likes the brick idea too but thinks it might not fall within the parameters of 'legal' for this problem. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

11-23-2007, 08:47 PM	#11
zippyt LONG LIVE KING ZIPPY! per Feetz Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Arkansas Posts: 7,661	OH I have it !!!! Take them out on your boat and release them with a hook in the as bait !!!! __________________ "Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. " Brother Dave Gardner

11-24-2007, 01:21 AM	#12
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Hmmmm...don't think that'll work mate. Nice try though. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

11-24-2007, 02:44 AM	#14
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	...in the way that killing animals is wrong? __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

11-24-2007, 02:56 AM	#15
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	In no way is it wrong. They are not indigenous to that ecosystem and are harmful, they should all just be wiped-out as efficiently as possible. On our ranch we shoot all feral cats and pigs on sight. If you work on our property it is part of your job. Even if you are vegan the glue that holds your shoes together, your make-up, car parts and the celluloid the film is made of when you go to the movies is made of animal parts. Eggs are used to make your vaccinations and animals are used, and killed, to save your loved-ones every day. I hunted for years to control populations of animals so those left would not starve or get ill due to declining space and/or predators. I take it you don't kill the mosquito or biting fly on your arm, roaches in your home? Of course not, that would be "wrong". It is not wrong and there is no conundrum... kill the pests. If research is being done it should be on how to kill all of them. Last edited by rkzenrage; 11-24-2007 at 03:03 AM.

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