Disagree About Iraq? You're Not Just Wrong -- You're Evil - Page 4

Hippikos · 03-19-2007, 10:08 AM

Some quotes from the architects and dogs o' war and yep, you'll still surprised Dicky....

“And a year from now, I’ll be very surprised if there is not some grand square in Baghdad that is named after President Bush. There is no doubt that, with the exception of a very small number of people close to a vicious regime, the people of Iraq have been liberated and they understand that they’ve been liberated. And it is getting easier every day for Iraqis to express that sense of liberation.” [Richard Perle, 9/22/03]

“We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction and relatively soon.” [Wolfowitz, 3/27/03]

“I am not asserting to you that I know that the answer is — we did it right. What I am saying is it’s an extremely complex judgment to know whether the course that we chose with its pros and cons was more sensible.” [Douglas Feith, 7/13/05]

“I should have recalled at the time of the State of the Union speech that there was controversy associated with the uranium issue. … And it is now clear to me that I failed in that responsibility in connection with the inclusion of these 16 words in the speech that he gave on the 28th of January.” [Steven Hadley, 7/22/03]

“We recognize that military action in Iraq, if necessary, will have adverse humanitarian consequences. We have been planning over the last several months, across all relevant agencies, to limit any such consequences and provide relief quickly.” [Elliot Abrams, 2/25/03]

“[T]he American part of this will be $1.7 billion. We have no plans for any further-on funding for this.” [Andrew Natsios, Administrator of the U.S. Agency for International Development, 4/23/03]

“President Bush understands that the need to disarm Saddam Hussein is necessary. He has made that case to the United Nations Security Council. He’s made that case to the United States Congress. The entire world rallied behind this resolution that gives him one last chance. He has that chance, but time is running out.” [Dan Bartlett, 1/26/03]

Mitch Daniels had said the war would be an “affordable endeavor” and rejected an estimate by the chief White House economic adviser that the war would cost between $100 billion and $200 billion as “very, very high.” [Mitch Daniels, Office of Management and Budget from January 2001 through June of 2003, 1/10/06]

“It’s a slam dunk case.” [george Tenet, CIA Director, 4/19/04]

“You are going to be the proud owner of 25 million people,’ he told the president. ‘You will own all their hopes, aspirations, and problems. You’ll own it all.’ Privately, Powell and Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage called this the Pottery Barn rule: You break it, you own it.” [Colin Powell in Bob Woodward's, Plan of Attack]

“You go to war with the Army you have. They’re not the Army you might want or wish to have at a later time.” [Rummy the Great, 12/9/04]

“We did not know at the time — maybe someone knew down in the bowels of the agency — but no one in our circles knew that there were doubts and suspicions that this might be a forgery. Of course it was information that was mistaken.” [Condi Rice, 6/8/03]

“I think they’re in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency.” [Cheney, 6/20/05]

“Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof — the smoking gun — that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud.” [Bush, 10/7/02]

piercehawkeye45 · 03-19-2007, 11:56 AM

Well I'm pretty sure that administration doesn't have morals very high on their list...

tw · 03-20-2007, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Well I'm pretty sure that administration doesn't have morals very high on their list...

Posted were classic examples of morality. Extremist morality. Only their morality is the 'righteous' morality. Therefore Dominicans murdered Jesuits for the glory of god. God told George Jr to attack Iraq. Strongest supporters of George Jr's "Mission Accomplished" are evangelical Christians. That is clearly a superior morality. Must be. We elected them twice because we so approve of their morality.

Even those who are 'most moral' tell us it is so - when they swear on the Bible to tell the whole truth and then intentionally lie in Federal Court - More Intelligent Design

Morality is a term that wackos use to justify their actions. The righteous cannot be wrong. "Bring 'em on". Clearly those 400 prisioners in Guantanamo - all but maybe as few as 14 are innocent ... well nobody expected the Spanish Inquisition. Clearly legalized torture is also acceptable - because they are moral - as defined by a political agenda called evangelical Christianity and Republican extremism.

piercehawkeye45, why be so nice? It is what it is and they are what they are. Rumsfeld taught us that. And if you are not sure what they are really saying, then ask Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh. They will be so happy to tell us the truth.

piercehawkeye45 · 03-20-2007, 11:46 AM

Yes, but they have to know that what they are doing is hurting America as a whole, not helping it. Of course they think they are doing the right thing, but they should know they are not doing their job.

TheMercenary · 03-20-2007, 10:33 PM

Who on this thread is the holder of the popcorn. Please pass it my way, thanks.

tw · 03-21-2007, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Yes, but they have to know that what they are doing is hurting America as a whole, not helping it. Of course they think they are doing the right thing, but they should know they are not doing their job.

In the same moral vein, evangelicals support Israel's expansion in the West Bank. Why? Well, a war between Israel and Arab nations would be Armageddon. As a result, Christ will return, most Jews will dies, and those who live will convert to Christianity. To evangelicals, this is good.

Well this help the world? Well what happens when Christ does not arrive? Oh. That could not happen. After all, they were doing good by enabling a second coming of Christ. Of course they are moral?

Nobody expected the Spanish Inquisition either. Cardinal Fang! The cushy pillow. Even torture can be moral?

Griff · 03-21-2007, 06:41 AM

Here you go Merc.

Hope you like it with garlic.

TheMercenary · 03-21-2007, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

In the same moral vein, evangelicals support Israel's expansion in the West Bank. Why? Well, a war between Israel and Arab nations would be Armageddon. As a result, Christ will return, most Jews will dies, and those who live will convert to Christianity. To evangelicals, this is good.

Well this help the world? Well what happens when Christ does not arrive? Oh. That could not happen. After all, they were doing good by enabling a second coming of Christ. Of course they are moral?

Oh you have got to be frigging kidding me. Who the hell is feeding you this bull shit?

More butter for the popcorn please.

Urbane Guerrilla · 03-27-2007, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycamore

Anyone who supports the war in Iraq is simply a Goddamned pedophile...God told me so.

*ahem*...

I just like to make democracy's -- and thus humanity's -- enemies squeal like piggies, eee, eee.

And then there's that intellectual fifth column that doesn't want America to win one for humanity -- there's one of them writing in this thread, first initial t -- they can squeal like a piggie too.

The impossibility of arguing against an attempt at replacing a dictatorship with a democracy without also arguing in favor of a dictatorship and all its concomitant effects and results seems less than evident to those who make those arguments. This seems to me evidence either of a fundamentally fascistic nature, or of a two-digit IQ. Not exactly good either way, is it?

DanaC · 03-27-2007, 04:41 AM

Okay......you wanted to give Iraq freedom....so why is it that the first thing the coalition did was dismantle the Iraqi's entire civil infrastructure and then hope that 'something' would magically replace it, remove all 'barriers' to trade and allow American corporations to come in and skim off most of the profits? Also, the only law remaining on the statute books from Saddam's time is the one outlawing trade unions. Doesn't sound much like freedom to me.

Y'know UG....'freedom' and 'democracy' are two entirely different words. They are not synonymous. Democracy is not the sole province of the United States of America....by which I mean, your brand of democracy is exactly that, your brand. There are other kinds of democracy. What you attempted to drop onto Iraq at the business end of a bomb, was the American way: laissez faire economics, a lack of social safety nets and corporations more powerful than the government. There are, and have always been, other equally valid ways of organising society. Just because your country has spent the last fifty odd years trying to impose/encourage/mould other nations into that style of democracy does not make it the only, or the right, way.

TheMercenary · 03-27-2007, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

remove all 'barriers' to trade and allow American corporations to come in and skim off most of the profits?

Just because your country has spent the last fifty odd years trying to impose/encourage/mould other nations into that style of democracy does not make it the only, or the right, way.

1. That never happened.

2. That part is very true.

DanaC · 03-27-2007, 03:12 PM

1. Yes it did.

TheMercenary · 03-27-2007, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

1. Yes it did.

Ok, citations and proof please. I am open to discussion.

03-19-2007, 10:08 AM	#46
Hippikos Flocci Non Facio Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: In The Line Of Fire Posts: 571	Some quotes from the architects and dogs o' war and yep, you'll still surprised Dicky.... “And a year from now, I’ll be very surprised if there is not some grand square in Baghdad that is named after President Bush. There is no doubt that, with the exception of a very small number of people close to a vicious regime, the people of Iraq have been liberated and they understand that they’ve been liberated. And it is getting easier every day for Iraqis to express that sense of liberation.” [Richard Perle, 9/22/03] “We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction and relatively soon.” [Wolfowitz, 3/27/03] “I am not asserting to you that I know that the answer is — we did it right. What I am saying is it’s an extremely complex judgment to know whether the course that we chose with its pros and cons was more sensible.” [Douglas Feith, 7/13/05] “I should have recalled at the time of the State of the Union speech that there was controversy associated with the uranium issue. … And it is now clear to me that I failed in that responsibility in connection with the inclusion of these 16 words in the speech that he gave on the 28th of January.” [Steven Hadley, 7/22/03] “We recognize that military action in Iraq, if necessary, will have adverse humanitarian consequences. We have been planning over the last several months, across all relevant agencies, to limit any such consequences and provide relief quickly.” [Elliot Abrams, 2/25/03] “[T]he American part of this will be $1.7 billion. We have no plans for any further-on funding for this.” [Andrew Natsios, Administrator of the U.S. Agency for International Development, 4/23/03] “President Bush understands that the need to disarm Saddam Hussein is necessary. He has made that case to the United Nations Security Council. He’s made that case to the United States Congress. The entire world rallied behind this resolution that gives him one last chance. He has that chance, but time is running out.” [Dan Bartlett, 1/26/03] Mitch Daniels had said the war would be an “affordable endeavor” and rejected an estimate by the chief White House economic adviser that the war would cost between $100 billion and $200 billion as “very, very high.” [Mitch Daniels, Office of Management and Budget from January 2001 through June of 2003, 1/10/06] “It’s a slam dunk case.” [george Tenet, CIA Director, 4/19/04] “You are going to be the proud owner of 25 million people,’ he told the president. ‘You will own all their hopes, aspirations, and problems. You’ll own it all.’ Privately, Powell and Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage called this the Pottery Barn rule: You break it, you own it.” [Colin Powell in Bob Woodward's, Plan of Attack] “You go to war with the Army you have. They’re not the Army you might want or wish to have at a later time.” [Rummy the Great, 12/9/04] “We did not know at the time — maybe someone knew down in the bowels of the agency — but no one in our circles knew that there were doubts and suspicions that this might be a forgery. Of course it was information that was mistaken.” [Condi Rice, 6/8/03] “I think they’re in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency.” [Cheney, 6/20/05] “Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof — the smoking gun — that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud.” [Bush, 10/7/02] __________________ Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.

03-21-2007, 06:41 AM	#52
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Here you go Merc. Hope you like it with garlic. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

03-27-2007, 04:41 AM	#55
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Okay......you wanted to give Iraq freedom....so why is it that the first thing the coalition did was dismantle the Iraqi's entire civil infrastructure and then hope that 'something' would magically replace it, remove all 'barriers' to trade and allow American corporations to come in and skim off most of the profits? Also, the only law remaining on the statute books from Saddam's time is the one outlawing trade unions. Doesn't sound much like freedom to me. Y'know UG....'freedom' and 'democracy' are two entirely different words. They are not synonymous. Democracy is not the sole province of the United States of America....by which I mean, your brand of democracy is exactly that, your brand. There are other kinds of democracy. What you attempted to drop onto Iraq at the business end of a bomb, was the American way: laissez faire economics, a lack of social safety nets and corporations more powerful than the government. There are, and have always been, other equally valid ways of organising society. Just because your country has spent the last fifty odd years trying to impose/encourage/mould other nations into that style of democracy does not make it the only, or the right, way. Last edited by DanaC; 03-27-2007 at 04:51 AM.

03-19-2007, 11:56 AM	#47
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	Well I'm pretty sure that administration doesn't have morals very high on their list...

03-20-2007, 11:46 AM	#49
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	Yes, but they have to know that what they are doing is hurting America as a whole, not helping it. Of course they think they are doing the right thing, but they should know they are not doing their job.

03-20-2007, 10:33 PM	#50
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	Who on this thread is the holder of the popcorn. Please pass it my way, thanks.

03-27-2007, 03:12 PM	#57
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	1. Yes it did.

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