The Draft

richlevy · 04-22-2004, 09:54 PM

Since the war in Iraq began I have mentioned that I told my 18-year-old son that I believed that there was a %20 chance that there would be a draft in the next six years, the time during which I think he would be eligible.

Considering recent developments, and comments from both Democrats and Republicans, I am now bumping that up to %25. The only unknown is the war in Iraq and the time and manpower required.

Of course the White House is trying to dodge the issue. I do not think that they authorized Sen. Hagel to float a trial balloon. The White House does not want to even have the discussion until Bush is reelected.

Quote:

"We have a relatively small military. We have been very successful in recruiting and retaining the people we need," he said. Although the military is strained by its commitments in Iraq (news - web sites) and elsewhere, it is working on ways to get more combat power out of the existing force, he said.

This of course assumes a consistent enlistment/reenlistment rate. With tours in Iraq being extended beyond the promised 12 months, and the understanding that signing up for military service probably means signing up for a year in Iraq, this might become an issue.

I was not happy the day my son got his selective service postcard.

glatt · 04-23-2004, 07:45 AM

If the draft is re-installed, the american public will wake up. They will realize that loved ones will start to die. Support for the war will evaporate overnight. The war will end in a matter of weeks.

The politicians currently running the country rely on polls more than any in recent memory. (Just look at the whole Rice 9/11 testimony issue. They stuck to their guns on that until they realized how unpopular their position was. Then they flip flopped and let her testify.) Bush will have nothing to lose, since he will be in his second and final term. But his handlers will have a lot to lose.

The draft is very unpopular. It is political suicide for the party that passes it.

(edited for clarity.)

SteveDallas · 04-23-2004, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by glatt
If the draft is re-installed, the american public will wake up.

Throughout this whole business since 9/11, Americans have not been asked to make any kind of sacrifice. (Unless you count going out and shopping as a sacrifice.)

Undertoad · 04-23-2004, 08:31 AM

The only pols really talking about the draft are people like Charlie Rangel who really only hopes to score points in his home district. The problem is that he's a moron.

The other day he complained that 25% of casualties in Iraq are black or hispanic, which shows how black and hispanics are overrepresented in the military. Unfortunately for Mr. Rangel blacks and hispanics represent 24% of the country's population so all he proved was what a moron he is.

The draft is not coming back.

glatt · 04-23-2004, 08:44 AM

It's been mentioned here before, but if there was a draft or some sort of mandatory service, the american public would have more of a stake in international politics. I think there would be less apathy. People would tend to participate in the democracy. Maybe they would even seek out news so they could make informed decisions.

A draft isn't all bad. There is a silver lining.

TheLorax · 04-23-2004, 08:59 AM

The war will not end in a matter of weeks. Like it or not we’re stuck there unless you want to create the very terrorist breeding ground that Bush claimed it was when this whole thing started. I would be interested to know how many people at the Clear Channel Hate Sessions smashing Dixie Chicks cd’s and pouring out French wine would feel if they knew then that little Chip may be sent off to war.

Remember a good Patriot is a Republican who blindly follows the will of the President no matter how stupid and inane he is.

glatt · 04-23-2004, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheLorax
The war will not end in a matter of weeks.

If you are replying to my thread where I said exactly that, you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I shouldn't have started a new paragraph with that sentence. The sentence should have said; "If the draft is re-installed, the war will end in a matter of weeks."

I agree with you that the way things are now, the war will not end in a matter of weeks.

(Edit: There. I went back and changed it. Hope it's clearer now.)

SteveDallas · 04-23-2004, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
The draft is not coming back.

So where are they going to get all the soldiers they need? I admit I haven't been keeping score in detail, but it seems that they're already extending tours of duty for guard units and cutting back on rotation for the regular units already there. Assuming we're still there this time next year, isn't there going to be a real personnel shortage? (And I'm assuming that new enlistees in both the regular and reserves are down. But maybe I'm wrong about that.)

Beestie · 04-23-2004, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Then they flip flopped and let her testify

No, they didn't flip-flop. They "evolved in their position."

Undertoad · 04-23-2004, 11:26 AM

They could extend out their age and other limits, increase the pay a bit, and probably get enough people in one day. The military is no longer interested in unwilling soldiers that require in-depth training, and so you will see nobody in the military advocating a draft.

Happy Monkey · 04-23-2004, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
They could ... increase the pay a bit...

Well, that's one idea. One other idea might be to allow them to tap their retirement savings early - TAX FREE! That oughtta pump up the morale and the enlistments!

Griff · 04-23-2004, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad

The draft is not coming back.

Well, not before November anyway. I could see slavery er the draft coming back with some bull crap alternative service option so the lefty legislators can get their piece of the pie.

OnyxCougar · 04-23-2004, 05:27 PM

My nephew's marine unit was "embedded" with Col. North in Iraq. I remember when Oliver North was doing an interview for the folks back home when the hype came out about how the advance marines, like my nephew's unit, were running low on food and water.

Ollie commentary was with the supply officer for the unit, and it was all about,

"So are there enough rations for these marines, Captain?"
"Yes, Colnel. We have enough provisons and supplies for every marine."
"And is there enough water?"
"Yes, Sir."
"Well, there you have it, folks, don't listen to those folk who say there isn't enough food and water for us, we're covered."

I showed my nephew those clips when he got home and he got really pissed. There were days there were no rations, and the guys had to survive on half gallon of water a day, humping all that equipment. My nephew said, "Well, the OFFICERS were well supplied."

His 4 years was up last month. Every single man and woman in his unit has left the marine corps, or plans to when their enlistment is up.

He just got a job in the civilian sector as an Air Traffic Controller in Central California for $17/hour to start, and will be making $30/hour in 9 years. He's 22 years old.

All that being said, I dont know if his unit is indicative of the trend as a whole, but if it is, the rats are fleeing the ship.

Skunks · 04-23-2004, 05:52 PM

o/~ You can get anything you want, at <a href="http://www.arlo.net/lyrics/alices.shtml">Alice's Restaurant</a> o/~

It seems like a rather perverse take on the political system to consciously delay a draft until after being reelected. If people are as opposed to a draft as you lot suggest they will be, wouldn't there be enough of an outcry in opposition that, post-election or not, it wouldn't get very far?

This is, after all, a democracy; the government isn't generally supposed to force people to go die in some foreign country against their will and against the majority of the country's desires.

elSicomoro · 04-23-2004, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Griff
Well, not before November anyway. I could see slavery er the draft coming back with some bull crap alternative service option so the lefty legislators can get their piece of the pie.

Eh...don't forget that our fine president also did alternative service.

Rangel's original rationale for bringing up the draft (which was a year ago) was to get people to think about it and how it could affect the nation. He's not a complete moron.

Hagel is being a "patriotic American." Not a complete moron either.

Of course, neither of them would have to go...

04-23-2004, 07:45 AM	#2
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	If the draft is re-installed, the american public will wake up. They will realize that loved ones will start to die. Support for the war will evaporate overnight. The war will end in a matter of weeks. The politicians currently running the country rely on polls more than any in recent memory. (Just look at the whole Rice 9/11 testimony issue. They stuck to their guns on that until they realized how unpopular their position was. Then they flip flopped and let her testify.) Bush will have nothing to lose, since he will be in his second and final term. But his handlers will have a lot to lose. The draft is very unpopular. It is political suicide for the party that passes it. (edited for clarity.) Last edited by glatt; 04-23-2004 at 09:18 AM.

04-23-2004, 08:59 AM	#6
TheLorax Keeper of the Decorum Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NC - USA Posts: 59	Bush was born on third base and thought he hit a triple The war will not end in a matter of weeks. Like it or not we’re stuck there unless you want to create the very terrorist breeding ground that Bush claimed it was when this whole thing started. I would be interested to know how many people at the Clear Channel Hate Sessions smashing Dixie Chicks cd’s and pouring out French wine would feel if they knew then that little Chip may be sent off to war. Remember a good Patriot is a Republican who blindly follows the will of the President no matter how stupid and inane he is. __________________ "Unless someone like you cares a whole lot, nothing is going to get better. It's not." Dr. Seuss

04-23-2004, 08:31 AM	#4
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	The only pols really talking about the draft are people like Charlie Rangel who really only hopes to score points in his home district. The problem is that he's a moron. The other day he complained that 25% of casualties in Iraq are black or hispanic, which shows how black and hispanics are overrepresented in the military. Unfortunately for Mr. Rangel blacks and hispanics represent 24% of the country's population so all he proved was what a moron he is. The draft is not coming back.

04-23-2004, 08:44 AM	#5
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	It's been mentioned here before, but if there was a draft or some sort of mandatory service, the american public would have more of a stake in international politics. I think there would be less apathy. People would tend to participate in the democracy. Maybe they would even seek out news so they could make informed decisions. A draft isn't all bad. There is a silver lining.

04-23-2004, 11:26 AM	#10
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	They could extend out their age and other limits, increase the pay a bit, and probably get enough people in one day. The military is no longer interested in unwilling soldiers that require in-depth training, and so you will see nobody in the military advocating a draft.

04-23-2004, 05:27 PM	#13
OnyxCougar Junior Master Dwellar Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Kingdom of Atlantia Posts: 2,979	My nephew's marine unit was "embedded" with Col. North in Iraq. I remember when Oliver North was doing an interview for the folks back home when the hype came out about how the advance marines, like my nephew's unit, were running low on food and water. Ollie commentary was with the supply officer for the unit, and it was all about, "So are there enough rations for these marines, Captain?" "Yes, Colnel. We have enough provisons and supplies for every marine." "And is there enough water?" "Yes, Sir." "Well, there you have it, folks, don't listen to those folk who say there isn't enough food and water for us, we're covered." I showed my nephew those clips when he got home and he got really pissed. There were days there were no rations, and the guys had to survive on half gallon of water a day, humping all that equipment. My nephew said, "Well, the OFFICERS were well supplied." His 4 years was up last month. Every single man and woman in his unit has left the marine corps, or plans to when their enlistment is up. He just got a job in the civilian sector as an Air Traffic Controller in Central California for $17/hour to start, and will be making $30/hour in 9 years. He's 22 years old. All that being said, I dont know if his unit is indicative of the trend as a whole, but if it is, the rats are fleeing the ship.

04-23-2004, 05:52 PM	#14
Skunks I thought I changed this. Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: western nowhere, ny Posts: 412	o/~ You can get anything you want, at <a href="http://www.arlo.net/lyrics/alices.shtml">Alice's Restaurant</a> o/~ It seems like a rather perverse take on the political system to consciously delay a draft until after being reelected. If people are as opposed to a draft as you lot suggest they will be, wouldn't there be enough of an outcry in opposition that, post-election or not, it wouldn't get very far? This is, after all, a democracy; the government isn't generally supposed to force people to go die in some foreign country against their will and against the majority of the country's desires.

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