A Rural Area with Moderate Politics

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Griff, you have not grasped which part of that post was the thought experiment.

[Diaphone Jim]

Always remember that with Pennywise the President, there are no principled beliefs, no considered positions, no truth that survives a day and no lie that can't be told.
We need to be prepared for a massive infantile tantrum from the most powerful man in the world.

[Undertoad]

so to sum up our theory is he's continuously all of that level of ridiculousness, while at the same time capable of gimping the operation of the US Postal Service without people knowing

[Flint]

capable of doing the thing everybody knows about without anybody knowing?

as in, like, gradually training people to not believe their own eyes, just like has happened in every country that we assumed to be a stable democracy that suddenly, precipitously toppled into far-right fascism, as is, you know, the current trend in global politics? in the real world of things that are actually happening and should definitely be worried about?

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

so to sum up our theory is he's continuously all of that level of ridiculousness, while at the same time capable of gimping the operation of the US Postal Service without people knowing

Without people knowing? He's straight-up bragged about holding up funding from the post office to block vote-by-mail.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

so to sum up your theory is that if Trump loses poorly or wins he will get the banana republic he wants

I don't claim to know what Trump personally wants--it seems to change moment to moment anyway. I do know that Putin, for one, wants us unstable and at each other's throats, and he's very much gotten it, regardless of how much influence he may or may not have had in that outcome. You yourself noted awhile back that civil war is very much a possibility in the current political climate, and I think we've come closer to it in the last four years, not farther. I think Trump is a perfect example of the "take everything personally," "view my opponents as inherently evil," tribal-behavior-stoking attitude that you've decried in the past. I'm not saying Trump is a mastermind, I'm just telling you what I think will happen in each election scenario. Whether any of those scenarios ultimately ushers in a banana republic remains to be seen, but it's a fact that Trump has floated the idea of delaying the election, and threatened not to leave office if he loses. Both are banana republic behaviors, not functioning democracy behaviors.

[Undertoad]

so to sum up our theory is that fascism will be carefully implemented by a boorish clown with little charisma who is hated by 90% of the press, 90% of the intellectual class, and 90% of urban elites who control 95% of the cities and there is not a DAMN thing anyone can do about it

[Flint]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

so to sum up our theory is that fascism will be carefully implemented by a boorish clown with little charisma who is hated by 90% of the press, 90% of the intellectual class, and 90% of urban elites who control 95% of the cities and there is not a DAMN thing anyone can do about it

unless you are getting death threats from Trump supporters and have had to beef up your firearms preparedness for a very real, bloody civil war that is literally being threatened to you personally, at your doxxed home address, LIKE I AM, then I'm not super invested in your theories about who can or cannot stage a fascist takeover. the reality-defying supporters of the god-king-cult leader have been spooked into collecting huge amounts of guns and ammunition for decades now. when it hits the fan, who the ƒuck cares what intellectuals and urban elites think? THEY WILL JUST SHOOT THEM*

*me

[Undertoad]

You yourself noted awhile back that civil war is very much a possibility in the current political climate

I noticed the division and started considering the terrible possible consequences in 2013 when he was still just a boorish TV personality

threatened not to leave office if he loses

Please share your direct evidence of this

[Flint]

threatened not to leave office if he loses

Please share your direct evidence of this

oh, of course he didn't say that (unless he did), and if he did, he was just joking, or sort of suggested something that may or may not be taken that way. all around perfectly normal and not worrisome behavior. it's "all good"™

[Undertoad]

Good post though Clod, I think what will probably happen is not outright civil war but a division of the country with separate laws and structures. At first, states will vote to secede so Griff should choose the rural section of a solidly blue state. Over time, counties of those states will also divide, so NY is right out and it will have to be VT.

to sum up that is my theory

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Good post though Clod, I think what will probably happen is not outright civil war but a division of the country with separate laws and structures. At first, states will vote to secede so Griff should choose the rural section of a solidly blue state. Over time, counties of those states will also divide, so NY is right out and it will have to be VT.

to sum up that is my theory

Unfortunately your theory has merit. This outcome creates a mess here and leaves China largely in charge of humanity's future maybe an unstoppable outcome but not great for folks who don't 100% buy in see Uighurs.

Anyway, I'm not sure I have the stomach for a state fully in the bag for the left, hence my original ask about a moderate rural area. This thread was largely triggered by a constant anti-science bias I was getting from local family. Nobody is immune from not following the facts but in the pandemic it felt more permanent to me than it should have. I got thinking about how anti-education my relatives appear and how their kids and our economy could suffer for it. I think we're all more than a little on edge and I know I fall in that pattern of putting thoughts in other's heads when I'm stressed out. I had a good conversation with a Trump supporting uncle today so it isn't hopeless which is where my head had gone.

I still want to move to the mountains though.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

threatened not to leave office if he loses

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Please share your direct evidence of this

It's embedded in a news report, but the audio of Trump starts at 1:02:



And yeah, it's presented as "a joke," because that's how he always floats ideas, so he can backtrack if it's received badly. But it's polarizing, and he knows it. A lot of people think trolling is harmless fun, but I think it's bad for everyone.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

I think what will probably happen is not outright civil war but a division of the country with separate laws and structures. At first, states will vote to secede so Griff should choose the rural section of a solidly blue state.

I can certainly see it happening that way. My guess is Texas would be one of the first.

[Flint]

I live in the rural section of a solidly blue state and it is the absolutely most life-threateningly dangerous place to be right now. The anger against the democratic leadership is palpable, and overflowing in the threat of violence spilling into our streets and homes.

[Undertoad]

No need for quotes around a joke, it clearly is. I agree that it is bad for the everyone. I don't find it to be proof of anything. Do you have an example of something he floated as "a joke" that he did not receive pushback on and then implemented?