Osama bin Laden is DEAD

[TheMercenary]

Somebody knew. It sounds like there are quite a few factions within the Paki gov that has no idea what the other parts are doing. That is a bit unsettling given they are the only primarily Muslim nation with nukes.

[classicman]

That has been known about their Gov't for a long time. They are not monolithic.
Its more a melange' of beige yogurt.

[Happy Monkey]

While I'm sure the timing is a face-saving move, I'm not sure what else we could expect. If a CIA agent gave info to MI6 outside of the approved channels, they'd probably be off to jail ASAP, even though we are allies.

[Bullitt]

Complicit or embarrassed. They can't or won't get the job done, then America steps into their backyard and offs the guy on their own regard. Leaving the Pakis looking either weak and ineffective, or plain unwilling to fully confront the radical elements within their own borders. They sure as hell don't want to look like America's lackey, but at the same time it is just as bad to look as if America has to do their fighting for them. The government critics and opponents are having a field day with this I'm sure. It's lose-lose for Pakistan. If they would settle things with India in the east, quit screwing around over land disputes, then they could reallocate their resources to fighting this cancer that is rotting the country from the west. Its their own two-front "war". Save face and continue feuding with India, and not have the ability to fight off the radicals in the west, or swallow their pride with India and work to prevent the true threat to their national stability.

[tw]

Originally Posted by classicman

Interesting development. I think it makes the Pakistani Gov't look even more complicit.

As so accurately noted, "They are not monolithic. Its more a melange' of beige yogurt."

And much to my surprise, their nuclear weapons number is hundreds. Pakistan has for a long time been the most dangerous nation to America. A friendly nation also full of friends of our enemies and with nuclear weapons. Even Afghanistan is regarded by many in Pakistan as an enemy. Therefore Pakistan needs to protect the Taliban (certain factions).

During the cold war, America provided the USSR with a fail-safe system similar to one we had. The USSR gladly accepted it and implemented it. Cooler heads existed on both side.

But Pakistan refuses to accept the same fail safe system provided without strings. It is this type thinking, repeated constantly, that makes Pakistan further dangerous.

One can criticize all they want. And that is useless. One must first acknowledge what does exist. Then deal with it. Apparently Hilary Clinton has been doing so with success. The recovery of our secret chopper is a perfect example especially when Pakistan is courting better relations with China.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by tw

Pakistan is courting better relations with China.

Which part - It is so fragmented and disorganized. There is no central gov't as we in the western more civilized nations have.
We are dealing with a country that has the educational level of the 14th century, yet technology of the 21st.

[tw]

Originally Posted by classicman

Which part - It is so fragmented and disorganized. There is no central gov't as we in the western more civilized nations have.

Good question. One part of Pakistan is openly proliferating nuclear weapon technology around the world. We had no idea until Kaddafi told us.

The bin Laden raid simply made it glaringly obvious to top leadership that their own subordinates even have other agendas. It made overt denials that much more difficult.

Sometimes I read where the raid resulted in better US / Pakistani relations. Other reporters report the opposite. Neither is wrong. Each is only reporting from their part of Pakistan. Who are Pakistan's friends and enemies? Well, the US military in Afghanistan would be completely cut off and destroyed without supply lines from Pakistan. But the Afghanistan nation is considered by so many Pakistanis as to be an enemy. The Taliban is Pakistan's ally. Some call the Taliban a creation of Pakistan. Which part of Pakistan created and supported the Taliban? That question has no answer.

We did not make things any better by running an 18 wheeler over the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Unilaterally destroying it by providing nuclear material to India. Making nuclear dangers that much worse. Why should Pakistan trust us when we destroyed that treaty to further arm India?

Worse, we have no idea if we have won or are already defeated in Afghanistan. Pakistan is one factor that defines any victory or defeat.

What a mess.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Bullitt

Complicit or embarrassed. They can't or won't get the job done, then America steps into their backyard and offs the guy on their own regard. Leaving the Pakis looking either weak and ineffective, or plain unwilling to fully confront the radical elements within their own borders. They sure as hell don't want to look like America's lackey, but at the same time it is just as bad to look as if America has to do their fighting for them. The government critics and opponents are having a field day with this I'm sure. It's lose-lose for Pakistan. If they would settle things with India in the east, quit screwing around over land disputes, then they could reallocate their resources to fighting this cancer that is rotting the country from the west. Its their own two-front "war". Save face and continue feuding with India, and not have the ability to fight off the radicals in the west, or swallow their pride with India and work to prevent the true threat to their national stability.

Well stated. I agree that they really can't afford to completely isolate the radical elements, even though they pander and pose as if they are doing something of substance.

[classicman]

bump.

RE Osama Bin Laden. Significant push to take him out months ago. Senior WH staff resisted. This was cause of much strain between HC and Obama/Jarrett. HC and LP were in constant communication over matter – both attempted to convince administration to act. Administration feared failure and resulting negative impact on president. Intel disgusted over politics over national security.
Now Intel already leaking to media facts surrounding how info obtained. Namely from enhanced interrogation efforts via GITMO prisoners. Obama administration placed in corner on this. Some media aware of danger to president RE this and attempting protection. Others looking for further investigation. We are pushing for them to follow through and already meeting with some access.

Point of determination made FOR Obama not BY Obama. Will clarify as details become more clear. Very clear divide between Military and WH. Jarrett marginalized 100% on decision to take out OBL. She played no part. BD worked with LP and HC to form coalition to force CoC to engage.

IMPORTANT SPECIFIC: When 48 hour go order issued, CoC was told, not requested. Administration scrambled to abort. That order was overruled. This order did not originate from CoC. Repeat – this order did not originate from CoC. He complied, but did not originate.

This is an interesting read from back in May. I never heard any of this.

[Lamplighter]

Classic, check out the source... they also say Bin Laden was not shot

[classicman]

well can you prove it?

Yeh, I know. Cant be worse than the Inquirer - lol.
I happened upon it looking for something else and thought I'd throw it out there for your perusal/discussion. Interesting theory.

[Lamplighter]

[tw]

Now Intel already leaking to media facts surrounding how info obtained. Namely from enhanced interrogation efforts via GITMO prisoners.

bin Laden was in that compound only long after all GITMO prisoners were in GITMO. How did they learn that bin Laden had moved into a house in Pakistan? Mental telepathy is the only possible explanation.

Why does a Muslin god give GITMO prisoners a power that we do not have? The article only proves that god is on their side.

[ZenGum]

and what the heck is it with the tags on this thread?

class loves infi, i love ug, merc luvs jill, moran, rip ug

I don't think you're taking this seriously.

[infinite monkey]

Wait, they got Bin Laden? When did this happen?