December 7, 2006: Bad skiing in Alps - Page 2

officer_purple · 12-07-2006, 03:35 PM

I have a horribly nasty feeling I've been there.... Either that or all the ski resorts in Italy look the same.

SydneyBoy · 12-07-2006, 04:41 PM

The fart thread? Haven't seen it but it brings to mind the following:

* Methane is a greenhouse gas
* We all fart methane
* Most of the energy produced is by methods that produce large amounts of greenhouse gases
* Therefore, why not strap some sort of balloon device to everyone's bums, collect the methane and use it in gas power plants?

And we don't need to stop at people - livestock such as cows and sheep (chickens?) could also have their own balloons. Dolphins?? The possibilities are endless!

Anyone with me on this one?

xoxoxoBruce · 12-07-2006, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhaemolytic

As for the scientific consensus on global warming, here it is, published in Science (a peer-reviewed and arguably one the most respected scientific publications in the world.)
"BEYOND THE IVORY TOWER: The Scientific Consensus on Climate Change" by Naolmi Oreskes. Published in Science 3 December 2004:
Vol. 306. no. 5702, p. 1686

Well, if you want to get into the nitty gritty, check out this thread. It'll keep you entertained for a while.

Welcome to the Cellar, bhaemolytic, garren bagley and officer purple.

Parts of the Italian Alps had blizzards right up until June this year, record snowfalls, and I saw pictures of a 12" snowfall in August. The seasons seem to be shifting some.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

Perhaps we should follow China's example and place engineers in top government and corporate positions!

Considering the rate that China is polluting the environment with coal burning and cement production........um, maybe not.

SPUCK · 12-08-2006, 05:52 AM

It always bugs me that Global Warming is all OUR fault. Why does no one seem to ever mention natures contributions?

We had Mount St Helens back in 1980. I mean just as an example; it felled all the trees in a 212 square mile area. Using 'volcanic gases' it hoisted 1.5 cubic miles of rocks, soil, and ash, 15 miles into the air! I mean think about the millions of tons of gases that were involved! (That's tons of gas!!) The lateral column of gas left at 1,100km/hr at 600F!! Then we had huge Pinatubo blow. Right now there are 98 active volcanoes erupting. Any one of them in a spasm can dump out more greenhouse gas in a day than man can generate in a year.

Image Credit: Armando Alvarez Sanchez, Cruz Roja Ecuatoriana.
Name: r4.jpg
Views: 771
Size: 23.9 KB

As an example here's a quote about Mt. Ruapehu NZ: "The amount of sulfur dioxide released by the volcano is about 1000 tons per day, well down from the highs which have exceeded 10,000 tons per day."

Add to this things like fires. Two or three years ago they had fires burning in Asia or Indonesia that were insanely huge - thousands, and thousands, of square miles burned for months bringing life to a near standstill in the area.

Anyway, since I can easily believe volcanoes and such don't all agree to emit just so much each year, that we could have an "overdose" for several years that ultimately effects our planet's temperature in following years. But I never hear anything about that! Just, "We humans (and especially evile USA humans)", are causing global warming and "The sky is falling, the sky is falling!"

The sky may be falling and humanity may not be helping to prop it back up but I'm not even vaguely convinced that it's all our fault.

BTW: You might enjoy this link:
http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/...s/current.html

milkfish · 12-08-2006, 07:38 AM

Right, but ten thousand years ago (or whenever), volcanoes were going off and forests were burning too, I think, and the carbon they contributed to the atmosphere is reflected in the fossil record. It's the change over the last couple of hundred years (not just the last couple of decades) that's of concern, and there is no notion that the natural sources are solely responsible.

Regarding "millions of tons of greenhouse gases": consider that a mid-sized 30 mpg car driving 12,000 miles/year will create about 3.55 tons of CO2/year, multiply by the number of cars on the road, and I think we can take on a few volcano's-worth of emissions ourselves.

xoxoxoBruce · 12-08-2006, 11:43 AM

The 20th century was the least volcanic ever.

Happy Monkey · 12-08-2006, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPUCK

It always bugs me that Global Warming is all OUR fault. Why does no one seem to ever mention natures contributions?

People mention that constantly. It's factored in.

nephtes · 12-08-2006, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bromskloss

Is warming occuring?
If yes, is it caused by man?
If yes again, what should be done?

You know, I've always thought that #2 is a bit irrelevant to #3. If warming is in fact taking place, to a point that threatens the biosphere and/or us, then it seems like we should figure out what can be done regardless of whether or not it's caused by human activity or not. If greenhouse gases are in fact part of the cause, then indicates a certain set of potential solutions, but not whether or not a solution is needed.

xoxoxoBruce · 12-08-2006, 05:09 PM

You skipped a step;

1 - Is warming occuring?
1a - Is it a problem?
1b - If so how much?
2 - If yes, is it caused by man?
3 - If yes again, what should be done?

answers;
1 - yes
1a - We don't know
1b - We know some changes and their expected result, but since we don't know how warm it will get, we don't know the whole story. Plus there is bound to be things happening that nobody expected.
2 - Caused, no. Contributed to, yes. Disagreement on how much.
3 - That depends on 1a & 1b, change is not inherently bad.

That's not even it, in a nut shell. Way more complicated than that.

floatingk · 12-09-2006, 10:53 AM

Another view may include that human are just another part of the whole of nature. And though we think we can make changes to better our "pristine environment", the whole of nature is going to do whatever changes are necessary to balance out.

From a Neomalthusian perspective, it doesnt matter. Its probably too late.

Beestie · 12-09-2006, 11:04 AM

Never ceases to amaze me that anyone can even entertain the idea that its possible to stabilize the earth's climate. Its never been stable and it never will be stable. North America will again be covered in a miles-thick sheet of ice. The only question is when.

busterb · 12-09-2006, 01:11 PM

Damn I best get up more wood.

Sundae · 12-10-2006, 06:38 AM

This may help NSFW
http://www.cellar.org/showpost.php?p...8&postcount=81

Katkeeper · 12-16-2006, 05:47 AM

Apparently they made enough snow at Val Gardena to hold the World Cup races. And Bode Miller won by a large margin!

12-07-2006, 04:41 PM	#17
SydneyBoy Pithy Euphemist Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19	The fart thread? Haven't seen it but it brings to mind the following: * Methane is a greenhouse gas * We all fart methane * Most of the energy produced is by methods that produce large amounts of greenhouse gases * Therefore, why not strap some sort of balloon device to everyone's bums, collect the methane and use it in gas power plants? And we don't need to stop at people - livestock such as cows and sheep (chickens?) could also have their own balloons. Dolphins?? The possibilities are endless! Anyone with me on this one? __________________ At night rave near the guard's compartment naked with a blue light.

12-08-2006, 05:52 AM	#19
SPUCK Professor Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,911	It always bugs me that Global Warming is all OUR fault. Why does no one seem to ever mention natures contributions? We had Mount St Helens back in 1980. I mean just as an example; it felled all the trees in a 212 square mile area. Using 'volcanic gases' it hoisted 1.5 cubic miles of rocks, soil, and ash, 15 miles into the air! I mean think about the millions of tons of gases that were involved! (That's tons of gas!!) The lateral column of gas left at 1,100km/hr at 600F!! Then we had huge Pinatubo blow. Right now there are 98 active volcanoes erupting. Any one of them in a spasm can dump out more greenhouse gas in a day than man can generate in a year. Image Credit: Armando Alvarez Sanchez, Cruz Roja Ecuatoriana. As an example here's a quote about Mt. Ruapehu NZ: "The amount of sulfur dioxide released by the volcano is about 1000 tons per day, well down from the highs which have exceeded 10,000 tons per day." Add to this things like fires. Two or three years ago they had fires burning in Asia or Indonesia that were insanely huge - thousands, and thousands, of square miles burned for months bringing life to a near standstill in the area. Anyway, since I can easily believe volcanoes and such don't all agree to emit just so much each year, that we could have an "overdose" for several years that ultimately effects our planet's temperature in following years. But I never hear anything about that! Just, "We humans (and especially evile USA humans)", are causing global warming and "The sky is falling, the sky is falling!" The sky may be falling and humanity may not be helping to prop it back up but I'm not even vaguely convinced that it's all our fault. BTW: You might enjoy this link: http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/...s/current.html

12-08-2006, 07:38 AM	#20
milkfish A serene breakdown Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Northern NJ, USA Posts: 266	Right, but ten thousand years ago (or whenever), volcanoes were going off and forests were burning too, I think, and the carbon they contributed to the atmosphere is reflected in the fossil record. It's the change over the last couple of hundred years (not just the last couple of decades) that's of concern, and there is no notion that the natural sources are solely responsible. Regarding "millions of tons of greenhouse gases": consider that a mid-sized 30 mpg car driving 12,000 miles/year will create about 3.55 tons of CO2/year, multiply by the number of cars on the road, and I think we can take on a few volcano's-worth of emissions ourselves. __________________ A genius is one who can do anything except make a living. - Joey Lauren Adams

12-08-2006, 11:43 AM	#21
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	The 20th century was the least volcanic ever. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

12-08-2006, 05:09 PM	#24
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	You skipped a step; 1 - Is warming occuring? 1a - Is it a problem? 1b - If so how much? 2 - If yes, is it caused by man? 3 - If yes again, what should be done? answers; 1 - yes 1a - We don't know 1b - We know some changes and their expected result, but since we don't know how warm it will get, we don't know the whole story. Plus there is bound to be things happening that nobody expected. 2 - Caused, no. Contributed to, yes. Disagreement on how much. 3 - That depends on 1a & 1b, change is not inherently bad. That's not even it, in a nut shell. Way more complicated than that. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

12-07-2006, 03:35 PM	#16
officer_purple Oh...freaky lemur cats!!! Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Northern Ireland.... Posts: 6	I have a horribly nasty feeling I've been there.... Either that or all the ski resorts in Italy look the same.

12-09-2006, 10:53 AM	#25
floatingk The desert SW sucks.... Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 36	Another view may include that human are just another part of the whole of nature. And though we think we can make changes to better our "pristine environment", the whole of nature is going to do whatever changes are necessary to balance out. From a Neomalthusian perspective, it doesnt matter. Its probably too late.

12-09-2006, 11:04 AM	#26
Beestie -◊\|≡·∙■·∙≡\|◊- Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Parts unknown. Posts: 4,081	Never ceases to amaze me that anyone can even entertain the idea that its possible to stabilize the earth's climate. Its never been stable and it never will be stable. North America will again be covered in a miles-thick sheet of ice. The only question is when. __________________ ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦

12-09-2006, 01:11 PM	#27
busterb NSABFD Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: MS. usa Posts: 3,908	Damn I best get up more wood. __________________ I've haven't left very deep footprints in the sands of time. But, boy I've left a bunch.

12-10-2006, 06:38 AM	#28
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	This may help NSFW http://www.cellar.org/showpost.php?p...8&postcount=81 __________________ Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac Last edited by xoxoxoBruce; 12-10-2006 at 11:35 AM.

12-16-2006, 05:47 AM	#29
Katkeeper Hoodoo Guru Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Mechanicsburg PA Posts: 296	Apparently they made enough snow at Val Gardena to hold the World Cup races. And Bode Miller won by a large margin!

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