Scouts get pwned

[xoxoxoBruce]

The Mormon church, which sponsors more Scout units that any other organization,
said it was "deeply troubled" by the decision. Church officials suggested they
would look into the possibility of forming their own organization to replace the Boy Scouts.

With merit badges in corporate raiding, labor abuse, buying elections, and baptizing long dead people.

[tw]

Originally Posted by chrisinhouston

After the SCOTUS ruling in BSA vs Dale I just decided to put my energy elsewhere.

That is when BSA membership dropped significantly. Even some more 'religious' churches (such as Anglicans) discontinued their BSA association.

BSA recently decided that religion and BSA rules should not be imposed on anyone's sexual beliefs. That makes righteous (which also means hateful) religious leaders (who also ignored pedophilia) to become resentful.

[Pamela]

I actually know a (former) gay scout leader who was dismissed.

I will ask him to comment. Hope he is willing. I think his input would be relevant here.

[glatt]

This topic came up once or twice around the adult campsite at Scout camp over the last couple days. The consensus seemed to be that everyone was relieved that the controversy is behind us and that it won't change anything about what we do.

Sexuality was never a part of Scouting in our troop before and it still won't be going forward. But we added on our to-do list talking to the church that is our charter organization to see if they care one way or another what kind of leaders we get. We suspect they are fairly liberal and won't have objections to bringing on any one of the thousands of gay adults banging on the door offering to take on volunteer work for the troop.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Gay adults bang doors?

[Clodfobble]

Back doors.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Touché.

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by glatt

This topic came up once or twice around the adult campsite at Scout camp over the last couple days.
The consensus seemed to be that everyone was relieved that the controversy is behind us
and that it won't change anything about what we do.

Sexuality was never a part of Scouting in our troop before and it still won't be going forward.
But we added on our to-do list talking to the church that is our charter organization
to see if they care one way or another what kind of leaders we get.
We suspect they are fairly liberal and won't have objections to bringing on
any one of the thousands of gay adults banging on the door offering to take on volunteer work for the troop.

@Glatt, I understand your immediate focus is on your own particular troop.
But saying the issue behind you seems a dubious notion.
You then say your to-do list is to contact the church to see how they feel.
What will you do if they are not as “liberal” as you may hope ?

The problem is that religious tenets are the domain of a church, but differ among various churches.
But if Scouting's leadership and/or volunteers must conform to the tenets of the sponsoring church,
it loses the open-to-all perspective. And to hope this is not important to each specific church,
look to the response and recent political actions of the LDS Church.

I do understand the necessity of screening volunteers and leaders.
But IMO… if rejecting all openly GBLT adults from Scouting in local units is based on the religious tenets of it’s sponsor,
then Scouting can no longer legitimately claim to be meeting it’s other important goals.

On the other hand, when it comes to “protection of youth”, I think Scouting has recently tried to deal with the issue.
I’ve read the policies about arrangements for sleeping, toilets, showers, cameras, smart phones, etc.
And all of this seems to me to be genuine efforts to set appropriate standards.

But at this point, I doubt anyone can document that gay men are
any more likely to molest or sexually abuse than heterosexual men…
whatever definitions are used for the men or inappropriate sexual activity.

The research data on this seems very complex and limited, often being criticized
based on it’s assumptions, it’s political orientations or religious beliefs, or study design.
So statistical rigor seems to be lacking…

To Wit: Facts About Homosexuality and Child Molestation

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/facult...lestation.html

[glatt]

What will you do if they are not as “liberal” as you may hope ?

Well, I'll be very surprised and disappointed and I don't know what I'll do. I was using sarcasm before to point out the there are very few potential leaders stepping forward to take on the work of of being a volunteer. There have been exactly zero gay leaders kicked out or blocked by our troop in the past and I expect that number to remain zero. But I'd be very disappointed in this church if they took that position against gay leaders. I don't know if I'd be disappointed enough to take my boy away from his friends here and for me to leave my friends too. I'll report back. I probably won't know for a month or two. I seriously doubt they will ban gays though.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Well, I'll be very surprised and disappointed and I don't know what I'll do.

Don't tell the you're gay.

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

...
The problem is that religious tenets are the domain of a church, but differ among various churches.
But if Scouting's leadership and/or volunteers must conform to the tenets of the sponsoring church,
it loses the open-to-all perspective. And to hope this is not important to each specific church,
look to the response and recent political actions of the LDS Church.
...]

First they won't conform... then they will ... but really, they won't ....

Mormon Church Will Keep Ties With Boy Scouts Despite Objecting to Gay Leaders
NY Times - ERIK ECKHOLM - AUG. 26, 2015

The Mormon Church announced Wednesday that it would continue
its close association with the Boy Scouts for now, ending speculation that
it would sever ties because of the Scouts’s decision last month
to let openly gay men and women serve as leaders.…

It [the statement] was issued on behalf of the church’s top leadership groups,
the Council of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.…
For decades, the Mormon Church has used the Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts
as its main nonreligious programs for boys. Every ward sponsors Scout units,
and boys are automatically enrolled.

The Boy Scouts in turn expressed their appreciation for the contributions
of the Mormon Church and reiterated the policy of local control over volunteer leaders.
…
Zach Wahls, the executive director of Scouts for Equality,
which has campaigned to end discrimination against gay scouts and leaders,
said Wednesday that he was pleased with the Mormons’ decision to remain in the fold for now.

“Gay adults will have options of troops to serve in,” he said,
even if Mormon-sponsored groups will not accept them.
“We want to see less discrimination in scouting,
but also to make sure scouting is available for America’s youth.”