On Morality

[xoxoxoBruce]

Why do good people do bad things? Fear.

I would contend that if I do it to survive, it's not a bad thing.

Originally posted by jaguar
Welcome back =)

The other thing I feel is worth mention is people do bad things when they don't even know it.

Take for example, going on a P&O cruise, the chances are the ship is registered in Liberia and the money from that supports one of the most brutal and despotic regimes in Africa (no mean feat). The world's a moral quagmire, pick your fights carefully.

Thanks, Jag. And I agree that ignorance is responsible for much of the bad things that happen in this world. As I understood SM's question, though, he was asking why good people knowingly do bad things, so I left ignorance out of my discussion.

Still, its a highly interesting point. After WWII the average German would tell anybody who bothered to ask that the German people didn't really understand that Hitler was busily killing 6 million people right out in the front yard. Its hard to believe that someone wouldn't have noticed this going on, but Germans at the time mostly swore that they had no idea.

I think they were actually telling the truth - on one level, anyhow. Ignorance really was bliss for the average citizen in Nazi Germany. If you were a person of integrity and you looked around you at what was going on, you were left with two nasty choices: Turn traitor to your own country and most likely be killed for your efforts, or accept the understanding and be quiet about it - keep your nightmares to yourself and go throw up in private. It was better to just "take the blue pill" and avoid the entire issue.

[nersiegerl]

A person's morals unfortunately is influenced by society. It is not the one person that needs to change his morals, it is Society as a whole....Society definitely needs some help with a lot of issues.

Originally posted by nersiegerl
A person's morals unfortunately is influenced by society. It is not the one person that needs to change his morals, it is Society as a whole....Society definitely needs some help with a lot of issues.

Well, it's a question of which came first, the chicken or the egg, isn't it? What is society but a collection of individuals? The individual members of a society form its structure and belief system. On the other hand, its very difficult for a single individual to change something he sees wrong with the society around him. There were Germans who voted against Hitler; I'm sure many Arabs abhorred the 9/11 incident; many white southerners were against the institution of slavery, but the society around them had in effect tied their hands. In this you are correct.

But then again look at the individual acts of conscience and courage which occurred in all these situations: the white southerner who was a member of the underground railroad, the German citizen who hid a single Jew or an entire family in his attic, the Arabs who fought on the side of the allies with T.E. Lawrence in WWI. There are still plenty of hero's among us, no matter what society we may happen to live in.

[ladysycamore]

Originally posted by ladysycamore
To put a small twist on the original question:
"Why do bad things happen to good people"?

Originally posted by smoothmoniker


This statement presumes a lot:

That there are bad things;

That there are good people;

That “things” are a controllable condition;

Hm...yes, I would venture to say that is true. At least, for certain "things" but not "all" things.

*sniparooney*

[btw, I don’t think this post really adds anything useful to the discussion. It’s more like just doing the philosophical version of calisthenics – stretching out a statement to its premises and conclusions. Try it! It'll give you a head rush]

Argh, too...complex...for me. :p

I'd just chalk it up to "life sucks" and God has a bad sense of humor (juuuust kidding...a bit).

[nersiegerl]

That's exactly what I'm talking about!

[cowhead]

my whole take on 'why people do bad things' has more to do with the biological hardwiring versus the sociological mold into which we are 'forced'...

case in point (and where i have done some of my worst work) is along the sexual lines, you are hardwired to reproduce.. the desire is at the core of the being (like food... like shelter.. it's there) however in society at large (atleast around here) sex is considered 'unclean' or 'unholy' etc etc. (which in my opinion there is little that is further from the 'truth'..)

I don't think it has to do with the definition of 'evil' persay.. but why do you do something that you KNOW is wrong?

so I'm coping out with the biology agruement )

[Catwoman]

Originally Posted by cowhead

my whole take on 'why people do bad things' has more to do with the biological hardwiring versus the sociological mold into which we are 'forced'...

Thank you!

[xoxoxoBruce]

Cowhead, if I was on the jury, with that defense, your client would burn.
Oh BTW, sex is only dirty/unholy, if you're doing it right.

Originally Posted by cowhead

my whole take on 'why people do bad things' has more to do with the biological hardwiring versus the sociological mold into which we are 'forced'...

case in point (and where i have done some of my worst work) is along the sexual lines, you are hardwired to reproduce.. the desire is at the core of the being (like food... like shelter.. it's there) however in society at large (atleast around here) sex is considered 'unclean' or 'unholy' etc etc. (which in my opinion there is little that is further from the 'truth'..)

I don't think it has to do with the definition of 'evil' persay.. but why do you do something that you KNOW is wrong?

so I'm coping out with the biology agruement )

In my opinion, sex between two consulting adults who have been honest with one another - like no lies about "love" if that emotion is not felt, no lies about an unsuspecting S.O. hidden away somewhere, etc. - has absolutely nothing wrong with it. Its only when the act of sex somehow brings harm to oneself or the other partner or a third, unsuspecting party like a betrayed spouse or an unwanted child - THEN it becomes wrong.

[Cyber Wolf]

I see at least two levels that right/wrong can stand on.

First, there's societal perception of right/wrong. A society functions because if guidelines and rules that it imposes on itself. Bear in mind, these can be ANY rule or guideline. Second, there's the individual perception of right/wrong. A personal morality functions because if the guidelines and rules one imposes on oneself. Again, these can be ANY rule or guideline.

This being the case, the whole what is good/what is bad issue becomes largely subjective. And in THAT case, the reason why good people do bad things is because that's how its perceived by someone looking on, based on his/her morals which are influenced by (not necessarily molded after) the person's society's morals.

Let's say Mr. Generic here is a 'good' person; he's a fine philanthropist, attends church regulary and often, loves his mother, dotes on his wife and kids, is a favorite among his coworkers, etc... What if Mr. Generic does 63 in 55 mph highway zone? Is this a bad thing? Yes, because it's clearly stated the legal speed limit is 55 and he's going faster than that, a lawbreaker. Breaking the law is 'bad'. No, because the traffic is moving at 60-65 and he isn't posing a hazard by blocking a lane on the highway. Helping to reduce congestion on the highway is 'good' (can I get an AMEN, No. VA residents!). It's all how you (or the person next to you) look at it.