What it means to be an American - Page 7

Happy Monkey · 06-05-2006, 01:15 PM

"may be"

BigV · 06-05-2006, 01:29 PM

What's disjoint is trying to apply strict rules of logic to a conversation like this. If you wish to declare shrill and true to be disjoint, your own introduction to this conversation of the word "shrill" in response to xoB's political opinion is a poster child for illogic, and an ad hominem attack as well. "We disagree, and you're shrill." I read his post, and your response and I didn't find it "shrill". You clearly disagree, am I being shrill now?

As to my logic, I specifically called the comparison of shrill and true misapplied. They're not disjoint, though. They're complimentary. The first is about form, and the second is about content. They're NOT the same thing, but they absolutely overlap.

Additionally, I made a distict separation of the "logic" of the conversation and the political opinions being voiced. I happen to agree with xoB and HM, and clearly you do not. That seems to be the source of friction here, not "logic". MaggieL, you are in the difficult and uneviable position of defending this administration's actions. Good luck disengaging from that tar baby.

MaggieL · 06-05-2006, 01:59 PM

"You're shrill" is an ad hominem. "Attacks on Bush that use the words 'Nazi', 'mental midget' or 'antichrist' are shrill." is merely descriptive....and if not turning "A does not imply B" into "A implies not B" is too formal, then Goddess save us all.

warch · 06-05-2006, 01:59 PM

Well said V. even if you conjured the metaphoric "tar baby"...is it coming back into common use?! trendy.

Americans are trendy.

Really, I was just going to note the American almost universal ideal of "the lawn" particularly in the front. A very uniform presentation. You can get a bit funkier in the back, but dont break the vast chemical green expanse.

Spexxvet · 06-05-2006, 03:08 PM

Being American means that even though it is legal, we don't want anyone knowing what porn sites we visit or which phone sex services we use.

Kitsune · 06-05-2006, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Being American means that even though it is legal, we don't want anyone knowing what porn sites we visit or which phone sex services we use.

It also means, however, that we want to know what sites other people are looking at.

skysidhe · 06-05-2006, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieL

"You're shrill" is an ad hominem. "Attacks on Bush that use the words 'Nazi', 'mental midget' or 'antichrist' are shrill." is merely descriptive....and if not turning "A does not imply B" into "A implies not B" is too formal, then Goddess save us all.

well, I wasn't screaming the word 'anitchrist' and waving my hands running in circles. :p

And I would never call Bush a Nazi. I reserve that word for Rumsfield.

MaggieL · 06-05-2006, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skysidhe

well, I wasn't screaming the word 'anitchrist' and waving my hands running in circles. :p

Yeah, I know.

The problem here is there's an ongoing debate spread across two or three threads; since I'm stubbornly not responding to the standard Bush-bashing normative pressures, many feel a need to to show me the Error Of My Ways and collect their communal strokes for being seen to be Right Thinking Progressives.

Oh...sorry...I mean "Correct Thinking Progressives".

So some comments from me that may seem to apply to you personally actually are partly responses to stuff going on elsewhere.

Honest, there's nothing like being a gun-owning bisexual to keep one from being poltically doctrinaire.

skysidhe · 06-05-2006, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieL

Honest, there's nothing like being a gun-owning bisexual to keep one from being poltically doctrinaire.

not a problem

I got to love ya. You're the only person who talks to me.

xoxoxoBruce · 06-05-2006, 07:28 PM

Quote:

The problem with the shrillness is that it's annoying and counterproductive--unless you're only preaching to the choir, in which case it's merely pointless and self-congratulatory. It has nothing to do with the actual truth of the argument, except insofar as it projects that the speaker is breathless and hysterical...~snip

Then how do you explain the popularity of FOX News.

richlevy · 06-05-2006, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieL

As I've mentioned here before, I voted for Gore...but realized on 9/11 that I'm glad he didn't win. He doesn't have the chops to be commander-in-chief and certainly neither does Kerry. With the Cold War over a lot of us--me included--indulged in the wishful thinking that the CinC role had become a much less important part of the presidency.

We were wrong.

I think the Bush administrations policies suck on a number of issues, including among other things immigration and gay rights. Bush himself certainly doesn't come off well on TV. But...

Being able to start wars does not require any special intelligence, especially after Congress gave him blanket authorization. By every other measure, he has failed so far in Iraq.

As for immigration and gay rights, I wouldn't go around mentioning those two in the same sentence or else someone in the White House will get the bright idea to offer the conservatives in Congress a deal - amnesty for the 11 million in illegals in exchange for shipping an equal number of gays to Mexico.

kaylar · 06-05-2006, 07:56 PM

As I began to read this thread, I poured myself a cup of Jamaica Blue Mountain Coffee, the best in the world.

MaggieL · 06-05-2006, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Then how do you explain the popularity of FOX News.

I watch it and also CNN and listen to PBS as well as WPHT...it's not hard to explain. If you've never spent much time with other news outlets you might believe PBS and CNN don't lean, but the relentlessly liberal spin of CNN and PBS turns a *lot* of people off outside of the Blue zones.

The whoring for Christianity on Fox (and the whoring for sensationalism of O'Reilly) at least are intermittant and obvious.

MaggieL · 06-05-2006, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richlevy

...someone in the White House will get the bright idea to offer the conservatives in Congress a deal - amnesty for the 11 million in illegals in exchange for shipping an equal number of gays to Mexico.

Would you like a paper bag to breathe into? I mean really...

BigV · 06-06-2006, 09:24 AM

SPEAKING OF American...

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoB

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieL

The problem with the shrillness is that it's annoying and counterproductive--unless you're only preaching to the choir, in which case it's merely pointless and self-congratulatory. It has nothing to do with the actual truth of the argument, except insofar as it projects that the speaker is breathless and hysterical...~snip

Then how do you explain the popularity of FOX News.

it's merely pointless and self-congratulatory. And poisonous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieL

The whoring for Christianity on Fox (and the whoring for sensationalism of O'Reilly) at least are intermittant and obvious.

You're talking about those parts between the commercials, right? Yeah, I noticed that too. Very considerate of them to alert the viewers in that way.

06-05-2006, 01:15 PM	#91
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	"may be" __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

06-05-2006, 01:29 PM	#92
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	What's disjoint is trying to apply strict rules of logic to a conversation like this. If you wish to declare shrill and true to be disjoint, your own introduction to this conversation of the word "shrill" in response to xoB's political opinion is a poster child for illogic, and an ad hominem attack as well. "We disagree, and you're shrill." I read his post, and your response and I didn't find it "shrill". You clearly disagree, am I being shrill now? As to my logic, I specifically called the comparison of shrill and true misapplied. They're not disjoint, though. They're complimentary. The first is about form, and the second is about content. They're NOT the same thing, but they absolutely overlap. Additionally, I made a distict separation of the "logic" of the conversation and the political opinions being voiced. I happen to agree with xoB and HM, and clearly you do not. That seems to be the source of friction here, not "logic". MaggieL, you are in the difficult and uneviable position of defending this administration's actions. Good luck disengaging from that tar baby. __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

06-05-2006, 01:59 PM	#93
MaggieL in the Hour of Scampering Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Jeffersonville PA (15 mi NW of Philadelphia) Posts: 4,060	"You're shrill" is an ad hominem. "Attacks on Bush that use the words 'Nazi', 'mental midget' or 'antichrist' are shrill." is merely descriptive....and if not turning "A does not imply B" into "A implies not B" is too formal, then Goddess save us all. __________________ "Neither can his Mind be thought to be in Tune,whose words do jarre; nor his reason In frame, whose sentence is preposterous..."

06-05-2006, 03:08 PM	#95
Spexxvet Makes some feel uncomfortable Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,346	Being American means that even though it is legal, we don't want anyone knowing what porn sites we visit or which phone sex services we use. __________________ "I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce

06-05-2006, 07:56 PM	#102
kaylar Resident-in-Training Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 7	Jamaica Blue Mountain As I began to read this thread, I poured myself a cup of Jamaica Blue Mountain Coffee, the best in the world.

06-05-2006, 01:59 PM	#94
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	Well said V. even if you conjured the metaphoric "tar baby"...is it coming back into common use?! trendy. Americans are trendy. Really, I was just going to note the American almost universal ideal of "the lawn" particularly in the front. A very uniform presentation. You can get a bit funkier in the back, but dont break the vast chemical green expanse.

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