Please to explain for the hard of understanding...

[DanaC]

Ok. I know that as a Brit my attitude towards firearms is different to many Americans' attitude towards firearms. I don't fully understand American attitudes to guns - but thanks to the Cellar I do have more of an understanding than I used to.

I get that for many families, a kid's first gun and hunting trips with dad are a rite of passage. I also get that for some people the idea of an unarmed populace seems a dangerous thing and opens the door to tyranny. I get why the constitution upholds the right to bear arms (or arm bears etc etc.).

But the open carry movement is baffling me. I've seen a few bits and bats in the media about it and I don't understand why anybody would want large numbers of people to be armed in public places - I can understand wanting to have a gun in the house for home defence - I can understand wanting to have a collection of guns as a hobby - I can understand wanting to have a selection of good quality hunting rifles - I can even understand wanting the right to carry a gun in your bag or car for self defence (I don't agree with it - I think if everyone does that then the world gets that bit more dangerous and you're more likely to have to use that gun in your bag at some point).

But open carry? I don't get how this is desirable. I see pictures of war ravaged hell holes and everyone and their dog is toting antique Kalashnikovs - is that somehow an appealing prospect for US cities?

What prompted me to post about this is an article in today's Guardian:

Pro-gun picture book for children aims to reassure kids about parents' weapons
My Parents Open Carry aims to explain 'the right to bear arms and the growing practice of the open carry of a handgun'

Sporting a cover image of a blue-eyed family with guns clipped to their belts, a new American children's picture book is setting itself out as the solution for all those parents who "carry a gun and sometimes struggle with how to best explain the reasons" to their children.

My Parents Open Carry, by Brian Jeffs and Nathan Nephew, co-founders of the pro-gun Michigan Open Carry, has been released by small US publisher White Feather Press. The picture-book fellows a "typical Saturday running errands and having fun together" for 13-year-old Brenna Strong and her parents, say the authors. "What's not so typical is that Brenna's parents lawfully open carry handguns for self-defence."

Jeffs and Nephew say they were moved to write the book because they "looked for pro-gun children's books and couldn't find any".

Read the rest of the article here:

http://www.theguardian.com/books/201...ent-open-carry

So - please to explain for the hard of understanding (Brit)?

[henry quirk]

"they looked for pro-gun children's books and couldn't find any"

They couldn't find any for the same reason you won't find anti-gun kid's books.

There's no market.

You got an uber-vocal minority on one side and an uber-vocal minority on the other.

The majority does not care (much) either way.

The majority of gun owners and non-owners frown on the antics of the minorities on both sides.

Most folks -- no matter how 'pro' they may be -- aren't gonna walk around with a rifle strapped to their backs or a pistol holstered at the hip (unless they have good reason to).

All this horseshit about pro and anti is molehills inflated into mountains.

[DanaC]

The majority of gun owners and non-owners frown on the antics of the minorities on both sides.

Most folks -- no matter how 'pro' they may be -- aren't gonna walk around with a rifle strapped to their backs or a pistol holstered at the hip (unless they have good reason to).

That is very reassuring to hear.

[Gravdigr]

Open carry is desirable/legal because you can see that the guy has a gun. It's not concealed. In my state, Kentucky, if you can legally own a gun, you can carry/wear that gun on your hip, openly, legally, with no special permit or license, as long as your shirt isn't covering the weapon, that would be a concealed weapon, for which you need a special permit. Likewise, you can carry a rifle or shotgun in your hand, or slung over your shoulder, or in the special loops that are in some backpacks.

Also, there is no 'movement' toward open carry. Open carry has been around for ages, and believe it or not, is legal in more states than it's not. Some areas (more and more, actually) are now using open carry as a demonstration or protest against more restrictive laws/attitudes. Mostly, this has involved long guns, and the folks hollering about it, they're kinda put off by dudes walking down the sidewalk of Anytown, USA with a "black" rifle (read "assault weapon") slung over their shoulder. These folks would prolly commit suicide if they lived in Israel, where the military requires members to have their rifle on them at all times, 24/7.

Myself, I'm a little more worried about all these people that have the concealed carry permits...

You can't know who to worry about, or who stay away from.

[footfootfoot]

plus some "open carry" laws are in place as opposed to "concealed carry" which is another kettle of fish. For the most part, no one has a reason to walk around visibly armed.

[DanaC]

Apparently another book on their site is:

"for a limited time only, White Feather Press is giving away a free copy of the fun book Raising Boys Feminists Will Hate! by Doug Giles, with every purchase of My Parents Open Carry in book form. That's a $15.99 value!").

So, I went looking for a write up of the book and found this:

Feminists would love nothing more than to take your son and eradicate his masculine uniqueness. They hate men, and therefore, they will hate your son. That is, of course, assuming that you, the parent, intend to raise your son to be a man instead of a rouged and lipsticked, male American Idol hopeful. Get it right, parental unit: in the coming days you will be facing female chauvinist pigs who have sick designs for your dear son in culture, in the classroom and in a lot of churches. These whacked women actually believe that masculinity, the male composition, and a guy's hormones cause boys to become wicked oppressors, sexually abusive and brutal beasts; and they have the inflated stats, the re-written history books and the hysterical spin to prove it. Your daunting mission is to go against the grain, stand up to the radical feminists, and raise your little man into a lion, capable of leading the next generation into a moral culture of God, family and country.

And at the White Feather Press site they describe it:

Parent, if you have a young son and you want him to grow up to be a man, then you need to keep him away from pop culture, public school and a lot of Nancy Boy churches. If metrosexual pop culture, feminized public schools and the effeminate branches of evanjellycalism lay their sissy hands on him, you can kiss his masculinity good-bye because they will morph him into a dandy. Yeah, mom and dad, if – if – you dare to raise your boy as a classic boy in this castrated epoch, then you’ve got a task that’s more difficult than getting a drunk to hit the urinal at Chili’s. Read this bold and hard-hitting guide by Doug Giles, the politically incorrect master, on how to raise your son in a world which more and more seems to hate masculinity.

I don't even know where to start with that...

[Gravdigr]

I can give you one reason, you may or may not think it's a good reason, for open carry. A situation, if you will...

Popdigr was talking to a wildlife officer (game warden) over at Pennyrile State Forest here in KY. He was asking the standard questions, and happened to mention that he was interested in hunting the northern section of the forest. The game warden asked if he was a gun hunter, and Pop replied that he hunts deer with a bow exclusively. The guy got a little quiet, and told Popdigr that what he was about to say was not being said as a game warden, but as one guy to another guy.

He told Popdigr that he would not go into that area of the forest without a firearm, for any reason. When Pop started looking concerned, the warden explained that meth cooks had started using the forest for their lab set ups, and that he personally had been shot at twice that year. He strongly advised Popdigr (off the record) not to go into those woods without a gun.

Now, having a gun on you during bow-only season is a definite no-no. When Popdigr asked the guy about this situation, the warden replied that if he stopped Pop to check him out, and everything was on the up & up, and if the gun was carried openly, that he, personally, would not write someone up/arrest him for it. It is that dangerous there, he said.

There are now rules (laws?) being worked on that would allow hunters to carry concealed firearms during bow-only hunting seasons. I would assume that this would include open carry. As it is, you can still not possess a firearm while hunting during a bow season, concealed or otherwise, permit or no.

[glatt]

People doing open carry are attention whores.

[Gravdigr]

Heh. My point up there ^^^ was to point out that by carrying open, Popdigr wouldn't be forced to go through the classes, pay the fees and obtain a concealed carry permit. Just grab his weapon on the way out the door.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by DanaC

... So - please to explain for the hard of understanding (Brit)?

The current open carry movement is the brainchild of the fashion industry strategizing to make a fortune selling coordinated firearms accessories.

[Gravdigr]

Originally Posted by glatt

People doing open carry are attention whores.

In stead of a whore, couldn't they be a person who maybe inherited grandpa's pistola, but, doesn't have the financial means to obtain a concealed carry permit when the fees/classes can cost more than a lot of guns do?

In that situation wouldn't that person be discriminated against, financially?

Would he not be entitled to self-defense, just like the CCW permitted folks?

[DanaC]

Hmmmm....slightly mollified by the fact that he also wrote a book called: How to Raise Righteous and Rowdy Daughters!

[Gravdigr]

Originally Posted by Gravdigr

...in Israel, where the military requires members to have their rifle on them at all times, 24/7...

[sexobon]

Très chic.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Gravdigr

In stead of a whore....

Of course. I made a very blanket statement that is easily proven wrong with any number of examples.

However, there is much truth in it.