Who can tell me sth about the American Dream

[xoxoxoBruce]

All-American WalMart? They're public enemy #1!!!!!!! They have done more to contribute to the decline in America, than all foreign companies combined. They are a bigger boon to China than rice. They've put more Americans out of work than automation.
Read this or this or this or This one to see how they operate.
When you're done, I can give you a hundred more. All-American, feh.

[garnet]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

All-American WalMart? They're public enemy #1!!!!!!!

I personally think Wal-Mart sucks, too (for many reasons besides the fact that they have cost so many Americans their jobs--but that's a whole other thread!). But you know, people are going to say "hey, that's capitalism" and continue to shop there. When is it going to get to the point where say enough is enough? Interesting articles, by the way.

[Cyber Wolf]

Originally Posted by garnet

But you know, people are going to say "hey, that's capitalism" and continue to shop there.

Even without the political overtones...capitalism or no...people are gonna shop there because it's convenient, cheap and you can usually find, if not exactly what you need, something close to what you need. Despite the inherent evil of Walmart, it does fill a need that a lot of people want.

One stop on the way home from work and you can pick up the photos, grab that new CD, get that SpongeBob Tshirt the kid is harping for, a new watch because you got a raise, a couple of frozen pizzas, some milk, some fruit because you ate the last banana this morning...etc...etc...

Originally Posted by russotto

People who live in their own filth and object when people tell them this is not a good thing are not something it is possible to work with.
.

??????? To which group do you refer and under what circumstances and what reputable source do you have to back such a statement? Sounds like thinly veiled prejudice to me.

Originally Posted by russotto

Actually, we are not. There is a lot of interdependence, but it is by no means universal..

Give me a single example of the person who lives in America today as an island, complete in himself. Did you flip on a light switch at any time in the past 24 hours? If so then you are interconnected with the engineer who runs the computer at the power company, making sure the lines don't become over-loaded. You are interconnected with the utilities worker who strung the electric wiring on the poles to your home or office. You are interconnected with the logger who cut down the trees to make those poles. You are interconnected with the factory worker who made the cables the electricity runs through. If your local power plant is run by coal, you are interconnected with the miner who got that coal from the ground, the train engineer who drove the coal train on the railroad tracks to your city. You are interconnected to the men who laid down those tracks. This is only a single example. Russoto, you seem like a smart guy. Stop and think. We ALL "interbe."

Originally Posted by russotto

And he'll demand to be paid then, so why should you pay him now? If he becomes a doctor, are you going to tell him "My taxes put your ungrateful ass through school, so I'm not paying my medical bill"

That one's a no-brainer. I pay taxes for education so that down the road there WILL be doctors and other professionals and trained craftsman who I can look up in the yellow pages and call for whatever it is that I need and pay them a fair price for the work they do for me. Were there no schools, the yellow pages would be blank.

Originally Posted by russotto

Easy for you to say, since you aren't paying it. For me, it's about $3000/year, and it only goes up.

What makes you think I'm not paying it? At the moment I'm paying rent, and you'd better believe that the landlord passes along the cost of property taxes to his renters. And in the past I owned my own home which I paid property taxes on. If you don't like paying $3,000 a year, why don't you go buy a less expensive house in a poorer neighborhood? Its a free country. No one is forcing you to live where properrty taxes are that high. Everyone seems to forget that I worked for close to 30 years of my life and paid income taxes just like everybody else. The money I now get is MY OWN, paid into the system over a life time of work.

Originally Posted by russotto

The poor don't pay income taxes, so its no surprise they have fewer tax breaks. Of course, there IS the Earned Income Tax Credit, which they take. As for the wealthy, they pay for their condos in Aspen and their expensive gas guzzling cars (built, BTW, by much poorer people) and their exclusive gated communities; they aren't taking from me by doing so.

Oh, really? Low income people everywhere will be delighted to hear this. Perhaps you should make this astonishing news of government largesse more widely known to the world. A single person who earned over $7,000 a year was required to pay income tax in 2003. The Federal guidelines for the poverty level is anyone living on less than $9,310.00 a year. That means that people living in poverty are required taxes, so what's this "the poor don't pay taxes"? This display of ignorance on your part is apalling. And I presume that you noblely take no advantage of any possible tax breaks yourself since you seem to begrudge that person living below the poverty line taking advantage of the earned income tax credit.

[Elspode]

Originally Posted by lookout123

Are you aware that a Jack-N-The-Box manager starts at $35K/annual?

Guess I'm in the wrong field. I have 13 years of experience as office manager for three different multimillion dollar construction firms, and I make $36k. If I'd started at Jack in the Box 13 years ago, I'd probably be pulling down 100K by now, huh?

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

All-American WalMart? They're public enemy #1!!!!!!! They have done more to contribute to the decline in America, than all foreign companies combined.

I don't shop at Walmart because everyone sues them (women, Latin American's) so I figure they are evil.

I don't shop there but I really, really want to!

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by Elspode

Guess I'm in the wrong field. I have 13 years of experience as office manager for three different multimillion dollar construction firms, and I make $36k. If I'd started at Jack in the Box 13 years ago, I'd probably be pulling down 100K by now, huh?

i've got a couple of clients in the position who are getting in excess of $65K. so no you probably wouldn't be getting $100, unless you went the career path of district management, etc. elspode, at any point in the last 13 years has another opportunity with the potential for growth or more money come across your path? like i said before if money was your definition of success you probably would have chased the other opportunities. hopefully, money isn't your life's motivation.

[lookout123]

Oh, really? Low income people everywhere will be delighted to hear this. Perhaps you should make this astonishing news of government largesse more widely known to the world. A single person who earned over $7,000 a year was required to pay income tax in 2003. The Federal guidelines for the poverty level is anyone living on less than $9,310.00 a year. That means that people living in poverty are required taxes, so what's this "the poor don't pay taxes"?

wait now. in a thread earlier this year, several cellarites stepped up and said they paid $0 taxes last year.

[ladysycamore]

Originally Posted by Brianna

I don't shop at Walmart because everyone sues them (women, Latin American's) so I figure they are evil.

I don't shop there but I really, really want to!

Heh! For some things, I have to (sometimes, clothes..depending on what it is). I need cost friendly items. So I really am not caring about the whole politics of Walmart. I am going to shop where I can afford to shop...period. I don't have the energy to go looking around for places to shop and I am certainly not going out of my way (i.e. across town, etc.) just to shop.

Originally Posted by lookout123

wait now. in a thread earlier this year, several cellarites stepped up and said they paid $0 taxes last year.

Sure, and not a single one of them did so because, bottom line, they were living on incomes of less than $7,000.00 a year. Some of them may have used some tricks with smoke and mirrors to make it look that way to the Feds, but if they were gut level honest, they'd admit they made more than $583.00/month. Let's get real here.

Those who evaded paying any income tax at all, are quite frankly parasites. Let's call a spade a spade. They drove on interstates they paid nothing to maintain. They were protected by soldiers whose salary they refused to pay, even as these men were laying down their lives for their country which included those individuals who wouldn't pay their taxes. Just a couple of examples to think about.

[lookout123]

mari - what should the cutoff be for a person to start having to pay taxes and at what percentage should they pay?
and lets keep in mind that the person who makes $7K/annual isn't living on that $7k alone. their are a few gov't programs available. food stamps, medical, housing. it all adds up. nobody denies that there really are poor people living in america - but we aren't living in the hell that you apparently see when you look around the world. if your community really is the way you are describing america, i strongly recommend that you pack your belongings into a car and pick a direction, drive an appropriate distance and start over. there are opportunities available.

[garnet]

Originally Posted by lookout123

if your community really is the way you are describing america, i strongly recommend that you pack your belongings into a car and pick a direction, drive an appropriate distance and start over. there are opportunities available.

Is that a realistic idea for most low-income people? When you move somewhere, you have to find a place to live, which requires first month's rent, security deposit, etc. Someone who's living on the poverty line most likely doesn't have that kind of cash laying around. If she were to go to a more "prosperous" location, I guarantee the rent would cost significantly more than what she's already paying. That money just doesn't fall out of the sky.

[lookout123]

i don't know. i know it isn't realistic for some people because they aren't willing to stick their neck out that far for fear of the unknown and the what-ifs. which is understandable. all i know is that if moving up in life (whatever that means to each individual) is important enough to a person they can accomplish it. there are a million things that might prevent a person from succeeding, but only one thing guarantees failure - and that is the decision not to try. it is in human nature to hold on to what we have and complain about how pitiful it is rather than risk losing it for the chance of gaining more.

[garnet]

Originally Posted by lookout123

i all i know is that if moving up in life (whatever that means to each individual) is important enough to a person they can accomplish it.

OK, I'll take you up on that. Say someone lives in a small-ish town and makes just enough to get by--they live paycheck to paycheck (as many people do) and cannot afford to save anything. They want to get a better job and move to a more prosperous place or a bigger city where there are more opportunities. They have the will and the ambition to move on, but no funds to back it up. How do you specifically suggest that they proceed at that point?

[lookout123]

they probably couldn't do it over night, but if the goal is important enough to them they can put away a couple of dollars from their current job so that soon they can do it. does this person have a tv? stereo? anything of relative value they may not need in order to start over?

by the way - i did start over a few years ago after a relationship went south. i was in a $25K/annual job with no hope for upward mobility. i quit there and sacked out at in an aquaintance's storage area. (pretty uncomfortable with 110 degree AZ heat) i stayed in there for six weeks until i could get into an apartment. i had no furniture, just my clothes and some dishes. i sold my stereo, tv, bass, and amp to pay the 1st month rent. i started a 100% commission job with good potential (i had no experience in the area, i bluffed my way through the interview) and went from there.

i now live quite comfortably.


edit: my point is that if i can do it, anyone can. i'm sure there are some here that would point out that i'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, i still support bush afterall. its not easy. it is scary. it is embarrassing. but it is possible.