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Old 08-01-2020, 01:03 PM   #61
Griff
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hmmm... He'll have to explain himself.
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Old 08-01-2020, 03:34 PM   #62
tw
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Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post
Why is this vaccine's protection going to expire?
Vaccines have limits. Polio vaccine lasted a lifetime. Effectiveness for Vaccines such as whooping cough, measles, and mumps degrade significantly in adults. Tetanus is typically only good for some years. Flu vaccines are good only for months.

We do not know (yet) the life expectancy of a Covid-19 vaccine. But to end a pandemic, we must assume its life expectancy can be as little as 3 months - just like some other flu vaccinations. And must make strategic plans for it accordingly and now.

For the same reason, in the military or in commercial businesses, a strategic objective is clearly defined long before the first battle or product release.

I am confused why this was not obvious months ago. Science has been saying this for a long time. Yes, many vaccines diminish for the vaccinated people over time.

The Don, like any good mafioso, will do anything to subvert knowledge. To say anything so that he need not work for the people. Apparently what science has been saying is no common knowledge?

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Old 08-02-2020, 04:16 PM   #63
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Well that sucks, but considering some people have gotten sick twice I suppose it's to be expected that immunity is illusive.
Even with sufficient vaccine they'd play hell trying to vaccinate the whole world in three months.
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Old 08-03-2020, 06:26 AM   #64
Griff
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If you think getting these dipshits to wear a mask is too political just wait until you offer them a vaccine.
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Old 08-04-2020, 05:15 PM   #65
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Quote:
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Vaccines have limits. Polio vaccine lasted a lifetime. ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff View Post
If you think getting these dipshits to wear a mask is too political just wait until you offer them a vaccine.
The Polio vaccine was a great success... but not for everybody.

The following quote is from the article A Coronavirus vaccine won’t change the world right away which gives additional reasons why people won't be in a hurry to get the vaccine.

Quote:
... On April 12, 1955, a vaccine against polio was shown effective and safe. Its inventor, Jonas Salk, became a national hero. Church bells rang and people ran into the streets to hug one another, said Howard Markel, a medical historian at the University of Michigan.

But there were bumps along the way, even as scientists and public health authorities sought to thwart a disease that was of greatest threat to children. The “Cutter incident” became an infamous moment in medicine, when one of the suppliers of the vaccine failed to fully inactivate the virus in the shot, infecting about 40,000 children, paralyzing 51 and killing five. Those infections seeded their own epidemic, paralyzing 113 others and killing an additional five people.

“What’s incredible is it was only a blip. Parents were so trustworthy of doctors and scientists, and it went on, people got their shots,” Markel said.

The Salk vaccination was a transformative moment, but it was also not the end of polio. Over the course of two years, cases in the United States dropped by 80 percent, but outbreaks continued for several years, even as the vaccine was rolled out. Six years later, an oral polio vaccine that could be given as a sugar cube that dissolved on children’s tongues was introduced. Polio was eliminated in the United States in 1979.
1955-1979
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Old 08-19-2020, 12:02 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by henry quirk View Post
I like 'heretic' better but that carries (to me) a sense of active rebellion, and I just ain't the time, energy, or interest for that.

Non serviam, as declaration, works, but isn't easy to label.

Indifferent (with a clinched fist)?

*shrug*
Perhaps that fist is not wholly clenched. I dunno either.
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Old 08-25-2020, 06:59 AM   #67
Griff
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AP Fact check for yesterday's nonsense.

https://apnews.com/7c6c47ba0bef4fb26ca667e4ea15e131

HEALTH CARE

TRUMP: “We protected your preexisting conditions. Very strongly protected preexisting ... and you don’t hear that.”

THE FACTS: You don’t hear it because it’s not true.

People with preexisting medical problems have health insurance protections because of Obama’s health care law, which Trump is trying to dismantle.

One of Trump’s alternatives to Obama’s law — short-term health insurance, already in place — doesn’t have to cover preexisting conditions. Another alternative is association health plans, which are oriented to small businesses and sole proprietors and do cover preexisting conditions.

Neither of the two alternatives appears to have made much difference in the market.

Meanwhile, Trump’s administration is pressing the Supreme Court for full repeal of the Obama-era law, including provisions that protect people with preexisting conditions from health insurance discrimination.

With “Obamacare” still in place, preexisting conditions continue to be covered by regular individual health insurance plans.

Insurers must take all applicants, regardless of medical history, and charge the same standard premiums to healthy people and those who are in poor health, or have a history of medical problems.

Before the Affordable Care Act, any insurer could deny coverage — or charge more — to anyone with a preexisting condition who was seeking to buy an individual policy.

Democratic attacks on Republican efforts to repeal the health law and weaken preexisting condition protections proved successful in the 2018 midterms, when Democrats won back control of the House.
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Old 10-03-2020, 11:19 AM   #68
richlevy
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Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post
Well that sucks, but considering some people have gotten sick twice I suppose it's to be expected that immunity is illusive.

Even with sufficient vaccine they'd play hell trying to vaccinate the whole world in three months.
Not the whole world like everything else these days it will be organized by privilege.
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Last edited by richlevy; 10-03-2020 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 10-03-2020, 11:23 AM   #69
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If you think getting these dipshits to wear a mask is too political just wait until you offer them a vaccine.
Just tell them it's bleach Trump's already approved that for injection.

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Old 10-03-2020, 11:25 AM   #70
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..removed...
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I have always believed that hope is that stubborn thing inside us that insists, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that something better awaits us so long as we have the courage to keep reaching, to keep working, to keep fighting. -- Barack Hussein Obama
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Old 10-04-2020, 05:21 PM   #71
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Back to the original topic. Religion and politics have always been intertwined. Nowhere was this more apparent than in the reformation and the counter Reformation in Europe. Greed and power mixed with religion created hundreds of years of conflict. This is part of the reason that Europeans are generally cooler towards religion than other regions and why our founding fathers, while espousing freedom of religion also declared separation of church and state.

Religious organizations strive for survival as much as any other organism and as such make what our objectively immoral decisions.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/histo...rds-holocaust/

Others are drawn to power and make what are not necessary but for them desirable accommodations with evil.

This was characterized by the split indeed German Evangelical movement between pro-Hitler and core religious churches. A schism that seems to be repeating itself today in the United States.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conf...Reich%20Church

Who's who do not remember history of deemed to repeat it.


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Old 10-04-2020, 05:52 PM   #72
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my original point from 2016 was not that religion and politics are intertwined, but that politics is replacing religion as a source of spiritual fulfillment for people

so this year we had a movement which offered spiritual redemption, moral instruction, kneeling and chants, original sin and the confession of it, fellowship and excommunication, the pursuit of a perfect state of being, rigidly enforced guidelines for behavior, and martyr worship.

~ but perhaps all that is by chance ~
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Old 10-04-2020, 06:01 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
my original point from 2016 was not that religion and politics are intertwined, but that politics is replacing religion as a source of spiritual fulfillment

so this year we had a movement which offered spiritual redemption, moral instruction, kneeling and chants, original sin and the confession of it, fellowship and excommunication, a thorough dogma, the pursuit of a perfect state of being, a rigidly enforced guidelines for behavior, and martyr worship.

but perhaps all that is by chance
I would still make the point that in many cases this is indicated by the mixing of religion and politics. One could make chicken and egg argument. Either the inclusion of politics into religion was caused by politics taking on the trappings of religion and forcing itself into established religions or established religions were co-opted by political leaders and religious elements were transferred to the political party.

In our current situation, as much as some conservative leaders try to disavow Trump's moral credentials while maintaining that he is a useful tool for their religious objectives, it can be argued that Donald Trump is the new moral leader of a large number of American conservative Christians.

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Old 10-04-2020, 09:55 PM   #74
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... it can be argued that Donald Trump is the new moral leader of a large number of American conservative Christians.
He cheated on his every wife. He says he can murder someone on Fifth Ave and still be loved (voted for) by his Christian supporters. He steals money from Contractors by not paying them. He lies incessantly. He trades in his wives every ten years for a newer model.

So that proves Christian Evangelicals are actually Satanists? That is their morality?

Religion is always about a man and his god. A good religion is never imposed on anyone else. What religion should violate American principles that separate church and state? Good religions have no place in politics. Otherwise they are imposing their beliefs on all others.

Last edited by tw; 10-04-2020 at 10:00 PM.
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Old 10-04-2020, 11:39 PM   #75
richlevy
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He cheated on his every wife. He says he can murder someone on Fifth Ave and still be loved (voted for) by his Christian supporters. He steals money from Contractors by not paying them. He lies incessantly. He trades in his wives every ten years for a newer model.

So that proves Christian Evangelicals are actually Satanists? That is their morality?

Religion is always about a man and his god. A good religion is never imposed on anyone else. What religion should violate American principles that separate church and state? Good religions have no place in politics. Otherwise they are imposing their beliefs on all others.
It just shows that some sheep have trouble picking the right shepard. UT is right in that some politics give the same satisfaction as religion. The switchover is made easier when a religious leader introduces the political leader, even with a qualifier. Trump being an obvious jerk makes it easier by setting a low bar. Getting into heaven by throwing children into detention camps is a lot easier than caring about them.

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