I will boycott the Olympics

[aliasyzy]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

I should take a moment to welcome aliasyzy to the Cellar, and to offer congratulations on your excellent English, sir. I hope the Great Firewall of China doesn't ever give you trouble with contacting big-nosed Americans.

Every time I speak with big-nosed Americans, Mr. and Mrs Spank will pay a short sharp trip to my botty land

Oops, the doorbell is ringing. Noooooooo!!!!

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by aliasyzy

Everybody seeks power. Get along and take care of families surely need power. Without power, can we sit comfortably in front of an LCD and chat like this while some people on the earth have to worry about their next meal? If you lose the power to sustain your current life style, will you try to get it back?

OK, I follow you. We both, apparently, enjoy a lifestyle more comfortable than much of the world, that is struggling just to survive. I agree that many, make that the majority, are suffering from blind consumerism.

Maybe it's my background, or age, but the world around me has varied considerably, with subsequent adjustments on my part. Granted I was never starving, but I've always said, "Anything more than a cave and a brontosaurus bone to chew on, is luxury". I still believe that, but I suppose few would agree with me.

Yes, if I lost my current lifestyle I'd try to get it back, but not by taking it from someone else. I would only become aggressive if someone tried to take my cave or bone... or PC.

[Elspode]

I watched both women's beach and women's traditional volleyball today. Good lord, those women are hot.

Boycott scantily clad, athletically built babes? No way.

[DanaC]

Nice to meet you aliasyzy

I understand that we have a very skewed view of China over here. I also understand that people are people wherever they are. I find the Chinese government's stance on Falun Gong to be rather more extreme than many other governments' stances on similarly troubling internal issues. That is not just the skewed western view of China. There is strong evidence of live harvest donation from Falun Gong prisoners. That is not the same the world over.

[aliasyzy]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Nice to meet you aliasyzy

I understand that we have a very skewed view of China over here. I also understand that people are people wherever they are. I find the Chinese government's stance on Falun Gong to be rather more extreme than many other governments' stances on similarly troubling internal issues. .....

I don't know much about the details of Falun Gong, but my points of view could represent quite a few people in China.

1. I've seen some video clips Li Hongzhi, head of Falun Gong, made for his followers. Full of crap like "I'm the avatar of buddha, believe in me and practice Falun Gong, you will be healthy, happy and go to heaven." To me, Falun Gong is a cult. ("cult" maybe a little too negative. I don't know the exact word to describe it)

2. About live harvest donation, I downloaded a report written by two US lawers from the official website of Falun Gong(banned in China. I know some tricks to get me through). The report pretends to be objective, but the accusation is based on guess/induction. To me, it's more like a sentimental portray of evil communist party than a objective report.

3. Possibility of live harvest donation (my judgement/guess)
small scale 60%
large scale 5%
You said there is strong evidence, so my estimate may be a little ridiculous.

4. If live havrest donation existed, who to blame? Communist party? Central Government?
Believe me, such horrible things(if they existed) have nothing to do with central government. No government will allow things like this, because such atrocity undermines the foundation of the whole society.
Based on my experience, if there is live harvest donation, it should be related to the corruption of local prison or police(esp rural areas), gansters, human organ trafficking group.
The central government at that time may not even know, province or local governments surely would choose to cover such a disgraceful crime.

5. Why Li Hongzhi or Falun Gong keeps accusing communist party or central government? First, the central government banned Falun Gong. Second, is there any other way more convenient to get support in US?

6. My grandfather in law was once a Falun Gong learner. Never heard of any Falun Gong followers put in prison in Shanghai. However, there is a high possibility that dedicated Falun Gong followers were treated unfairly in some less developed areas.

If you know Chinese, you could visit the Chinese language wiki site of Falun Gong (banned in China) http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%B3%...BD%AE%E5%8A%9F Note: not english wiki of Falun Gong, they are different!

I get the link from google. I think it's relatively objective. It will tell you the chronicle of Falun Gong and how it was banned in China.

[DanaC]

Unfortunately I have no knowledge of Chinese. The infor I have on Falun Gong isn't from wiki, it's from the small Falun Gong refugee community over here and Amnesty. The evidence I've seen includes personal testimony from a group petitioning for my support (the women spoke with an interpreter, so I can accept that actual direct interaction was limited), several reports including some American, Canadian and German submissions, most containing photographic evidence.

I accept your point about the difference between Shanghai and the more rural areas. I also accept your point that it is difficult to say for sure where culpability lies. But, the evidence I've seen is highly suggestive of this being something sanctioned at a high level.

I don't know what the truth is. You don't know what the truth is. It's an interesting, if slightly disturbing, question to ponder though :P

Thanks for not taking offense at my post. I am not coming to this from an anti-Chinese stance. I have had a good deal of interaction with people claiming abuse and persecution due to their practising Falun Gong, hence it is a subject that interests me.

[aliasyzy]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Unfortunately I have no knowledge of Chinese. The infor I have on Falun Gong isn't from wiki, it's from the small Falun Gong refugee community over here and Amnesty. ......

I've seen some photograph evidence you talked about. But I'm not convinced. I have to admit I don't trust sources from a "cult" and a braggadocio leader. Money could buy everything.
Well, It's my prejudice.

I can't imagine any plausible motive if high level people had ever persecuted superstitious citizens.

The central government seems never inspected and responsed those accusations -- definitely a bad habit. You are right. I don't know the truth.

I know what's not true and try to guess what's true.

[ZenGum]

Sometimes I think, Ohh, bad bad bad Chinese government for persecuting the Falun Gong people.
Sometimes I think, Why doesn't OUR government have enough nerve to shut down the Scientologists, on grounds of being a money-making mind-manipulating member-harming evil cult?

Then I get confused and shut up.

[HungLikeJesus]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Sometimes I think, Ohh, bad bad bad Chinese government for persecuting the Falun Gong people.
Sometimes I think, Why doesn't OUR government have enough nerve to shut down the Scientologists, on grounds of being a money-making mind-manipulating member-harming evil cult?

Then I get confused and shut up.

I think you can say that about any religion.