Clinton campaign demonstrates repeated incompetence

[deadbeater]

Now Clinton supporters resort to stabbing Obama supporters? Who are the real zealots?

[deadbeater]

Originally Posted by BizarreTees

I don't know.. imho with the socialized healthcare, I think it sounds good on top but once it comes down to it a lot of folks won't like it. You are still paying for healthcare - it's not free. It's just coming out of your paycheck in the form of higher taxes... and not only will you be paying for your own healthcare, but you will be paying the healthcare of everyone not paying taxes. Folks not paying taxes are really the only ones getting free healthcare.

I'd like to see how they are going to work it out and how much folks will be taxed. And how they will work around the problems that other countries with socialized healthcare have.. such as being on a waiting list for important surgeries that we can get immediately here. Lots of people travel here to the US to get surgeries because of how poor the universal healthcare in their country is.

There should be a few bucks from defunding the Iraq War.

[Aliantha]

Isn't the private health insurance industry government regulated in the US?

[BizarreTees]

Originally Posted by DanaC

again this is something I've said before, but I think it's worth repeating: I find it very hard to understand how the richest country on this planet, the one with the most resources, both physical and human, can have so many millions of its citizens living in fear of illness because they are unable to access medical care should the worst befall them.

Well, one of the reasons this country is so rich with the most resources etc.. is because we are a Democracy and have a 'work for what you have' mentality. Socialized medicine kind of starts the road of destroying that. Lots of doctors and medical facilities will probably go out of business with universal healthcare, and getting a medical degree won't be such a great thing anymore, because you won't be making any more money than any other doctor - no matter how much you study to be the best in your field with additional courses etc... They also need to address how malpractice insurance will affect things.

As I said, I would really love to see the specifics of whatever plan they want to enforce so that we can possibly see the consequences that come with it, because I am sure there are many.

[BizarreTees]

Originally Posted by deadbeater

There should be a few bucks from defunding the Iraq War.

Haha, I know, right? Unfortunately they will probably tax us. At least, that's what they have said they would do.

[deadbeater]

Now Clinton is demonstrating the latest Saturday Night Live as evidence of bias against Clinton. Funny, unless one can say that a show Tina Fey making the best pro-Clinton statement of anyone else in the campaign season and Barack Obama in Blackface (ok, Indianface) exhibited signs of bias against Clinton.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I think I have more respect for Tina Fey, than Ted Kennedy.

[DanaC]

Lots of doctors and medical facilities will probably go out of business with universal healthcare, and getting a medical degree won't be such a great thing anymore, because you won't be making any more money than any other doctor - no matter how much you study to be the best in your field with additional courses etc

Many of our NHS doctors also work in the private sector. We have socialised medicine, with everyone guaranteed medical care regardless of income; however, we also have private medicine for those who can afford it and choose to use it. Many jobs carry private medical insurance as one of their perks. Just because there is socialised medicine doesn't mean doctors can't make a mint.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by deadbeater

Bet we won't catch Hillary Clinton wearing a kimono, no matter how many times she visited China and Japan.

Actually, the Washington Post, in its style section, dug around for a silly picture of Clinton it could run in order to compare something to the Obama photo.

They found this one to run.

[Shawnee123]

Those are the worst Halloween Conehead costumes I've ever seen.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Flint

If we know that healthcare as a business is screwing people over in the pursuit of the bottom line, and if we know that healthcare as a government office would be a nightmarish clusterfuck, then what about a third option: keep healthcare as a business, but regulate the greed out of it the same way we've regulated other business to provide a baseline of humane treatment, IE not selling us rotten meat, food with poisonous ingredients, cars without seatbelts, or airplanes that aren't inspected for safety before taking off?

Is this the right place to post this? I was thinking about this in the shower this morning...

Even the process of regulation would be a nightmare. Which part are we going to regulate the hell out of and which part of the system (think business) are we going to allow to tank. There are so many elements involved. The providers are only one link in the chain. I don't have the answers but since I work in health care I see the problems every day.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Isn't the private health insurance industry government regulated in the US?

All aspects of any insurance industry are regulated by the State. But that is a loose term, regulate, in the since they can charge what the market will tolerate, but they cannot over charge or discriminate in how they charge.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Many of our NHS doctors also work in the private sector. We have socialised medicine, with everyone guaranteed medical care regardless of income; however, we also have private medicine for those who can afford it and choose to use it. Many jobs carry private medical insurance as one of their perks. Just because there is socialised medicine doesn't mean doctors can't make a mint.

And if we go to universal care we will get the same thing. Just what people here are bitching about. A two tiered system. Sure you can get that knee replaced in 9 months, or you can go down the street to my office when I get off at noon and we can do it next week.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Even the process of regulation would be a nightmare.

I know, I'm just trying to imagine a third, less evil option than the two evils that are always debated.

If the current system is said to be greed-driven, and a socialized system is foreseen as being operationally hamstrung, then maybe we could keep the operational structure of our current system but remove some of the profit motive. I know, that takes us out of the free-market, may-the-best-man-win arena, but in this case it's a response to the observation that maybe medicine shouldn't be treated like any other for-profit consumer product. And, in response to the observation that the government can't manage a business effectively (we all know to ship by UPS or Fed Ex, not the post office) we let the business continue to be handled by people who do business. The better players will adapt to the new rules, and rise to the top.

On a detailed level, I have no idea how you would accomplish this. But I know that there are problems with the current system that lead people to discuss the possibility of socialized medicine. And I know that there is strong, well-founded resistance to socialized medicine. Maybe, my thought is, there could be some kind of hybrid system. Let business do what it does, and the government do what it does.

There is precedent for the government "interfering" with business, for the common good. This would be a case where I think we could apply that.

[TheMercenary]

The hybrid system you are talking about is sort of the ideas being floated by both the Demoncrats running now. A lot of people do not understand how the system works now other than there are people who are insured and those who are not, and that the poor get free care now, while those who work and pay taxes do not. This is the bit we need to fix and continue to keep it profitable for those of us who do it for a living to make a living. The system is so very complicated. The idea that we can in some way adopt a system from a country with the GDP of Vermont is fantasy. It isn't going to happen. So many other parts of our system would be effected by a radical systemic change. I say we work towards some sort of coverage like GAP insurance or something government sponsored and fix our TAX system, see where things fall out from that. I don't know the answers but I know where it is broken.